If the LORD gives His glory to no other, then what is the glory that Jesus gives to the twelve and to future believers?

Question

Isaiah 42:8 says:

I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

While John 17:5, 22 says:

5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,

The glory that Jesus speaks of is shared between Him and the Father, which I can understand from a Trinitarian standpoint, in which Jesus is God. God says through Isaiah that He gives His glory to no other, yet in John the God-man Jesus gives it to the twelve and future believers. How do we reconcile this apparent contradiction? By treating the words "no other" in Isaiah to mean "no other idols"? By differentiating the meanings of "glory" in the two verses instead of conflating them?

From my original post of this question in CSE, some have answered that instead of giving His glory in the sense of transferring the ownership of it away, Jesus gives it indirectly, that believers have God's glory because Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who have and own such glory, live and dwell in believers. While Him not transferring the ownership of His glory makes sense, the indirect giving doesn't. John 17:20 points out that what Jesus had already given was given to the twelve. However, they did not have the Holy Spirit at that time for them to indirectly have God's glory. As for Jesus, perhaps His incarnate self is the glory that God gave to the twelve and to the world? Hebrews 1:3 does call Jesus the radiance of God's glory, but then how does it make sense that Jesus asks the Father to glorify Him with Himself that He had with the Father?

I have read most of another question and its answers about defining glory in John 17:22, and while they were insightful, they didn't clear up the contradiction. One answer points to Isaiah LXX showing that the Lord doesn't give His glory to "another of a different type," which seems to support the LORD giving His glory to Jesus, since Jesus is of the same type as the LORD, but does not support the LORD giving it to believers. Another answer points to other parts of Scripture in which God gladly confers glory to His followers. While He does give glory in those references, the glory given doesn't seem to be His glory.

Answer 1

The key to answering this question lies in John 17:11, in which Jesus says:

John 17:11 ESV

"Holy Father, keep them in Your Name, the Name which you have given Me, so that they may be one with You as I am one with You."

God's glory is present because of His Tetragrammaton Name, which is the holiest Name above all other names, because it identifies Him as the only one true God above all gods. Only YHWH God and anyone He bestows His Name upon shares in his singular glory. God is light and spirit, and anyone born of Him is light and spirit.

This is why Jesus shares the singular glory of God, because God has given Him the Name above every name, which is the Tetragrammaton "YHWH". Therefore, every knee will bow to the Name of Jesus, because YHWH God has given Jesus His Name and the authority that comes along with it.

Likewise, all who believe in Him through His Son will share in the singular glory of God because we will also inherit "the Name above every name", granted that we finish the race through faith in God's Son and our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, Revelation 14:1 says:

Revelation 14:1 ESV

Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had His Name and his Father’s Name written on their foreheads.

Answer 2

The Greek translation helps understand why there is no contradiction.

LXX-Isaiah 42:8 (NETS)

I am the Lord God; this is my name; my glory I will not give to another, nor my excellence to the graven images.
ἐγὼ κύριος ὁ θεός τοῦτό μού ἐστιν τὸ ὄνομα τὴν δόξαν μου ἑτέρῳ οὐ δώσω οὐδὲ τὰς ἀρετάς μου τοῖς γλυπτοῖς

The significance is in ἑτέρῳ, another. A Greek translator has a choice of how to describe another. They may use ἑτέρῳ heteros as in Isaiah, or they may use ἄλλος allos as in John.

John 14:6 (ESV)

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever

The English language does not distinguish between different types: all who are "other" are the same. This is not the case in Greek because heteros means another of a different type and allos means another of the same type. The correct interpretation of the LXX-Isaiah is My glory I will not give to different than Me.

YHVH saying He will not give His glory to another who is different from Him, says nothing about whether YHVH will give His glory to one another who is like Him. This is implied in what immediately follows, nor my excellence to carved images. The ending means YHVH will give His excellence to the living when it is warranted.

Those who claim YHVH is the Father, must recognize the statement in Isaiah cannot be used to override what is plainly stated in the New Testament.

John 17:5

And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

John 10:30

I and My Father are one.

Since the Father and the Son are one, the Father may give His glory to the Son because the Son is allos, another of the same type which must be true if they are one.

In addition, Isaiah cannot be used to reformulate what is plainly stated in the New Testament. Jesus is not asking for something new. He asks for a return of what was. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God... and ...with the glory I had with you before the world was. John's Gospel has the words from Jesus which corroborates what Paul states in Philippians.

⁵ Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, ⁶ who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, ⁷ but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. ⁸ And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. ⁹ Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, ¹⁰ so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, ¹¹ and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Restoring what was does not mean give to another, either different or the same.

Conclusion
The passage in Isaiah can not be used to "undo" the New Testament.

Philippians 1:17

that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him

If there is a Father of glory, it follows He must also be the source of glory. If there is any glory in any form or by any description, it follows the Father of glory was in some manner responsible.

And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. (John 17:5)

²⁰ “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, ²¹ that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. ²² The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, ²³ I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me. ²⁴ Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. (John 17)

No where does Scripture demand a full accounting of what is meant by glory to understand the equality between Father, Son, immediate and future disciples.

Answer 3

To explain the apparent contradiction and agree with Trinitarianism: that Jesus was given and gave the glory which was the Holy Spirit and the ability to perform miracles and forgive sins. The same was given to the Apostles through Jesus. The Holy Spirit being one person of the Holy Trinity therefore makes the Apostles as similar in nature to Jesus and the Father.

John 20 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Matthew 10 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

That is what is meant by “coming in power and glory”

They would see the Apostles (the holy ones of the Most High) coming in glory and power through the Holy Spirit and name of Jesus.

Answer 4

The Bible does not describe the glory that was certain to happen for the Christ as something that Jesus once had, then gave up, and was given back. The glory of the Christ was prophesied as Jesus stated in Luke 24:25-26.

Luke 24:25 ASV

And he said unto them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Behooved it not the Christ to suffer these things, and to enter into his glory?

Note that this glory was given to Jesus before the foundation of the world. If the Father gave Jesus glory before the foundation of the world, then there was a time before the foundation of the world that Jesus did not have this glory. It would not make sense for Jesus' God to give him this glory if he already possessed it.

John 17:24 ASV

Father, I desire that they also whom thou hast given me be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

If this verse is used to justify preexistence, then proponents for it need to explain if those who were given by the Father to Jesus also pre-existed. John 17:20,22

John 17:20,22 ASV

And I do not ask in regard to these alone, but also in regard to those who will be believing in Me through their word, v22 And I have given to them the glory that You have given to Me, that they may be one as We are one—

Consider too that if Isaiah is saying that God does not share His glory with "anyone else" but shared this glory with Jesus [who can be considered as "anyone else"] is self-contradictory.

Isaiah 46:13 shows that Israel is God's glory, and in Romans 9:4 we find ["who are Israelites; whose is the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;"], then the understanding of Isaiah 48:2 that God refuses to give His glory to another person besides Himself is flawed. When the context is considered, it means that He will not give His glory to anyone except Israel.

Isaiah 46:13 ASV

I bring near my righteousness, it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry; and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Answer 5

The glory spoken in John 17:5,22 is not the full glory mentioned in Isaiah 42:8. The full glory Isaiah 42:8 talks about is the glory of being God and the only God.

The glory in John 17:5,22 is having power but believers will not be worshipped as God nor above God.

Answer 6

"The glory that Jesus speaks of is shared between Him and the Father, which I can understand from a Trinitarian standpoint, in which Jesus is God. God says through Isaiah that He gives His glory to no other, yet in John the God-man Jesus gives it to the twelve and future believers. How do we reconcile this apparent contradiction?"

This apparent contradiction depends on whether we interpret John 17:5 to mean that Jesus, at one point, had glory that he shared with God, the Father.

This interpretation seems to rest on the broad meaning of the English word "with" as is seen in the NIV version of this text:

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

Because of the ambigously broad meaning of the English word "with" it is commonly held that Jesus is admitting that the glory that Jesus had before the world was the glory that Jesus had 'along with' or 'sharing with' the Father.

The problem with this interpretation is that the meaning of the Greek word, παρά (para), underlying the English word "with" is not so broad in this context.

When παρά (para) is used as a preposition governing the dative it means "to be near to" or "in proximity to" as opposed to "along with" or "sharing with".

In fact, the Greek word, παρά (para), is the same word underlying the English phase, "in your presence", used earlier in the verse. The problem with the NIV (and others) is that it translates the Greek word, παρά (para), inconsistently. If παρά (para) is translated consistently, as is done in the NRSV, the ambiguity falls away:

So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed.

Looking at John 17:5, with a more consistent translation of the word, παρά (para), it become clear that the verse doesn't say that Jesus shared the Father's glory, in fact, it says nothing about the Father's glory at all. It only speaks of the glory that Jesus used to have when in the Father's presence that he would like to have again in the Father's presence.

By clearing the misinterpretation (based on the ambiguous English word, 'with') that Jesus said that He was sharing glory with God, the Father, we have cleared any apparent contradiction with Jesus sharing his glory with his disciples.

Answer 7

Contradiction, as the OP question itself says, is only apparent.

In Isaiah's given passage the Lord says that He will not give His glory to anybody, neither His praise to any idol. Therefore, this means that "giving glory" and "giving praise" here means the same action, and since it is preposterous to think that God can give His praise to idol, as to invest, say, Baal or Athena with His praise, so we should not think that in "giving glory" in this passage is implied that Lord invests somebody with glory. Rather, the passage implies Lord saying: "I will not let anybody or anything to be glorified and praised in a manner that befits only Me! No, I will not give my glory and my praise - that is to say, glory and praise that on the part of glorifyers and praisers pertains only to me - to anybody or anything else! Nothing and nobody will be authorized by Me to be praised and glorified as only I should be!” Thus, in Lord's saying: "I will not give my praise to idol" is implied that no idol is worthy of being praised in the manner Lord is worthy of praise, and thus, also in "I will not give my glory to anybody" is implied that nobody is worthy of being glorified in the manner only the Lord is worthy of it. Thus, Isaiah just means that only to God befits a special praising and glorification, which nothing and nobody else can legitimately claim.

But beyond Isaiah's passage, we can say also that God has glory as the Source of glory, as possessing glory per-se, naturally, whereas humans can possess glory only through participation in the divine bestowal of this glory. Humans, thus, can be deprived of this glory, whereas God - cannot.

Since divine glory is eternal and co-eternal with God, thus, when humans participate in the bestowal of this glory, humans get deified through participation in the divine and eternal feature. Moses did it only in a limited way, for his encounter with divine glory was transient 2 Cor. 3:13, for it did not change ontologically his fallen essence; however, when Christ starts to live in a believer through His action in him (Colossians 1:29), then this has no fading and no end, and neither death, for a believer's soul after bodily death will be transferred to the fullness of everlasting life in God (cf. John 5:24) and be glorified by Him.

Thus, no contradiction also from this perspective, for Isaiah could imply that God is the only one who possesses His glory naturally, eternally and this feature is shared by only Father the Son and the H. Ghost, whereas glory possessed by humans or angels does not have this feature of eternity and naturalness, but they have divine glory by means of participation in free divine bestowal of this glory.

Answer 8

My answer might be controversial.

Answer

The LORD gives His glory to Lord Jesus (He had shared this glory with the Father before the world existed) and Jesus gives the same glory to His true believers, who will receive it in the future for the first time.

Explanation

“There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory (doxa) of the celestial is one, and the glory (doxa) of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory (doxa) of the sun, and another glory (glory) of the moon, and another glory (doxa) of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory (doxa)” (1 Cor 15:40).

What is man’s glory?

Man is of the same “kind” (genus) of God. This is what the Scripture says about man.

“And God created the man in His own image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female” (Gen 1:27).

Sequence of Information and IT

Information Technology says that meaningful information comes from a particular sequence of alphabets and words. This is true in the case of DNA language or computer programming language.

There is a similar sequence of information in Scripture language we see in Genesis first chapter. Let us see that:

Gen 1:21: “And God created the great sea animals, and all that creeps, having a living soul, which swarmed the waters, according to its kind (“genus” in Septuagint); and every bird with wing according to its kind (genus)”.

Gen 1:24: “And God said, Let the earth bring forth the soul of life according to its kind (genus): cattle, and creepers, and its beasts of the earth, according to its kind (genus)”.

Gen 1:25: “And God made the beasts of the earth according to its kind (genus), and cattle according to its kind (genus), and all creepers of the ground according to its kind (genus)”.

Gen 1: 26: “And God said, let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness”.

It is the sequence that verse 26 follows immediately after verse 25.

In effect verse 26 says:

‘And God said, let Us make man according to Our own kind (genus)’.

In other words, God created man according to the God kind!

So man is of the same genus or species as God is of! The only difference is that God is in the spiritual (“incorruptible”) realm but man is in the physical (“corruptible”) realm.

This explains why the great God Himself took all the pain to incarnate and pay the penalty for man’s sin.

This also explains how it was possible for God to incarnate as Man because God and man are of the same kind.

Exact Image

This is why the Scripture says that the Son is an “exact imprint” (ESV), “exact likeness” (GNB, ISV), “express image” (KJV) of God the Father (Heb 1:3). He is the “image of God” (2 Cor 4:4). He is the “image of the invisible God” (Col 1:15).

Jesus boldly said:

“The one seeing Me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).

This is why I always say that a Son cannot be any different from His Father in nature. If the Father is God, then His monogenes Son is God. A true Father cannot have a Son of different kind. Never.

Man’s Destiny is to become God (Or man’s destiny is to be transformed into the spiritual realm – 1 Cor 15:51-52)

So, we have seen that Jesus Christ is of the exact same nature of God the Father.

Then what about man?

Apostle John says inspired by the Holy Spirit:

“My dear friends, we are already God's children, though what we will be hasn't yet been seen. But we do know that when Christ returns, we will be like him, because we will see him as he truly is” (1 John 3:2).

So, the conclusion is that Jesus looks exactly like God the Father. The saints in resurrection will look exactly like Jesus Christ. Therefore, it becomes clear that the saints will look exactly like God the Father. This is what the Scripture says.

Apostle Paul says:

“Each of you is now a new person. You are becoming more and more like your Creator, and you will understand him better” (Col 3:10; CEV).

“and we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the LORD in a mirror, are being transformed into THE SAME IMAGE, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the LORD” (2 Cor 3:18; LSV).

This will happen at the future resurrection:

“Behold, I speak a mystery to you: we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet; for a trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed” (1 Cor 15:51-52).

“Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our body of humiliation, for it to be conformed to His body of glory” (Phlp 3:20-21).

“Your real life is Christ and when he appears, then you too will appear with him and share his glory!” (Col 3:4; GNB).

Patriarchs knew this:

The surprising fact is that the Old Testament saints knew this!

Job says:

“If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.” (Job 14:14).

King David says:

“As for me, I shall behold Thy face in righteousness; I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with Thy likeness” (Psalms 17:15).

No wonder, citing Psalms 82:6, Jesus Christ said:

“Jesus answered them, Has it not been written in your Law, "I said, you are gods"? If He called those gods with whom the Word of God was, and the Scripture cannot be broken” (John 10:34).

Conclusion

God became Man so that man can become God.

Yahweh God gives His glory to no other “kind” (genus). Jesus Christ already shared the same glory with His Father. Jesus gives the same glory to His saints because they are all ONE KIND; the God kind!

Now to answer your questions:

1. The glory that Jesus gives to the Twelve and to the future believers is the same glory He shared with His Father.

2. The words “no other” in Isaiah means “no other kind”.

3. The glory Jesus refers to is the same glory of God the Father and Jesus Christ.

4. Jesus received His glory back at His Resurrection. So the Twelve and the saints will receive the same glory at the first resurrection.

5. So, there is no contradiction.

Answer 9

There are a number of issues in the interpretation ‘Glory’ of God. Many assumptions are made to promote personal denominations, but there is no fact-based evidence and there is conflict between passages.

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

Isaiah 46:13 I bring My righteousness near, it shall not be far off; My salvation shall not linger. And I will place salvation in Zion, For Israel My glory.

Romans9:4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;

John 8:54 54 Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.

John17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Psalm 3:3 But You, O LORD, are a shield for me, My glory and the One who lifts up my head.

Psalms 8:5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor.

John 17:22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

John 17:24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Conclusion

Clearly there is a lack of detail as to the context of how ‘Glory’ is used. Is it God’s actual Glory or God glorifying those who are righteous.

Is it the same glory the son had with the father before the world (or before earth), if so how can his glory leave so he needs to ask for the glory to be re-instated.

Does Jesus already have glory or is he asking for glory and can he also give glory, its very ambiguous.

There is arguably a contradiction.

In any event the Trinitarian standpoint of Jesus being God the son because he was created before the world and sharing in the Glory of the father is week;

i) If the Father gives the son the glory, that cannot make him God as the son gives others the same ‘glory’ and would also make them God.

ii) John 17:3 – clarifies – “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.”

iii) Pre-existed - Jeremiah 1:5 – “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you, before you were born I set you apart, I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Some would argue that the Bible is inspired and cannot have contradictions, then they must also accept

Jeremiah 8:8 - “How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us’? Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.”