How to get at the textual meaning of John 17:11 with regard to ‘name’ when the two following translations say very different things?

Question

The KJV translates John 17:11 as: "Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."

The NWT translates John 17:11 as: "Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one."

The KJV has Jesus praying to his Father to keep safe those people given to him, through the Father’s own name.

The NWT has Jesus praying to his Father to watch over those people given to him, on account of the Father’s name given to Jesus.

Two completely different meanings! In one, the Father’s own name keeps the believers safe. In the other, the Father gives his own name to the Son. I would not have been surprised if the former was the NWT rendition, and the latter had been the KJV. But it’s the opposite way round!

However, my question is, how to tell from the original language text whether it’s the Father’s own name that keeps believers safe, or if the Father gives his own name to the Son, to keep believers safe. Does the Son receive the Father’s own name or is it those people the Father gives to the Son – or is it both?

Answer 1

There is a textual matter in the verse.

πατερ αγιε τηρησον αυτους εν τω ονοματι σου ους δεδωκας μοι

[TR - Beza, Stephanus, Elzevir and Scrivener all identical]

Textus Receptus Bibles

The Textus Receptus (and therefore the KJV translation follows it) has ous (masculine plural - 'whom') whilst the W&H/Nestle Aland text, has ho (neuter singular - 'which').

The TR text can be seen in the Englishman's Greek New Testament and the W&H/Nestle Aland can be seen on Biblehub.

Thus the KJV/EGNT/YLT (from Textus Receptus Greek text) read :

Father holy, keep them in the name of thee whom thou has given to me [EGNT

Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. [KJV]

Holy Father, keep them in Thy name, whom Thou hast given to me, [YLT]

Whilst other translations, from the W&H/Nestle Aland Greek text, will not be similar.

I do not know of any name which is given the Father that is then given to the Son. That seems to make no sense to me.

The name of the Father is 'Father'.

Titles are given to Jesus such as Christ and Immanuel and Lord. But I know not of any place where he is given - by the Father - the name 'Father'.

Answer 2

The text of John 17:11 has two forms in the second half of the verse. Here is my translation of each form:

1. NA28, UBS5, W&H (incl NWT), Byzantine, Majority, Orthodox, etc

Πάτερ ἅγιε, τήρησον αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου ᾧ δέδωκάς μοι, ἵνα ὦσιν ἓν καθὼς ἡμεῖς. = Holy Father, keep them in the Name of You which (ᾧ) you have given Me that they may be one as we are.

2. TR (alone)

Πάτερ ἅγιε τήρησον αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου οὕς δέδωκάς μοι ἵνα ὦσιν ἓν καθὼς ἡμεῖς = Holy Father, keep them in the Name of You whom (οὕς) you have given Me that they may be one as we are.

Note the important difference in meaning as highlighted above. The TR text is almost impossible to sustain in view of the very solid attestation in the ancient witnesses for the NA28 and UBS5 text also used in the Byzantine text and majority text, etc.

Jesus' prayer is to keep Christians safe by the Name of the Father which was given to Jesus. Jesus said this on other occasions such as:

• John 8:54 - Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory means nothing. The One who glorifies Me is My Father, of whom you say ‘He is our God.’
• John 10:25 - Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me,
• John 12:28 - Father, glorify Your name!” Then a voice came from heaven: “I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”
• Rev 14:1 - Then I looked and saw the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him 144,000 who had His name and His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

Answer 3

On John 17:11, I believe the KJV is God's Word and the greek is what it says. Other versions and Hort falsify the KJV and Hort is used by the ASV, RSV, NASV, and most other alternative versions. They change verses willy nilly to support 'man's free will' -- as Romans 3:22 "faith of Christ" changed to "faith in Christ" to support Arminian free williness (of the devil).

So our verse stands as the KJV has it! The verse reads "Holy Father, keep through thine own name those thou hast given me..." It says plainly "through thine 'God's' own name 'those' disciples thou hast given to Christ"

So, the KJV is absolutely right. Read it slowly. THE KJV IS GOD'S WORD absolutely Ron Johnson

Answer 4

To illustrate the problem via an English example:

"It was the one who wrote the book that united the people."

Does "that" refer to "book" or to "the one"? Is it the person who united the people or was it the book that the person had written which united them?

It is impossible to know for sure. The antecedent for "that" is unclear because the word "that" can apply to a person or to a thing (in this case a book). Further, in this case there are two separate dependent clauses, and it is common for English to interchange "that" for "who" if the "who" is otherwise repetitious.

In Greek, however, the relative pronoun doesn't even vary in this manner. It would be like always using "that" for a person or a thing. The antecedent of the relative pronoun in John 17:11 upon which the translation hinges, and differs so widely in meaning from one translation to the next, is likewise ambiguous. It can be understood to refer to the name or to the people (them).

Depending on how the reader interprets, the meaning in this case can seem rather different.

For another English example but which hinges on a dangling modifier:

"I gave the cookies to the children on paper plates."

Most people would intuitively understand this sentence without question. But on closer inspection, it doesn't seem to say what the speaker almost certainly meant! Were the children on the paper plates, or was it the cookies?

This just illustrates the ambiguities of language that seem inherent to all languages. Greek is no exception. There are times when an ambiguity exists in the original text and translators are forced to make a decision, rendering the meaning either one way or the other. Such is the case with John 17:11.

Answer 5

As pointed out by Polyhat, the original Greek verse is ambiguous. Even the English NWT is somewhat ambiguous:

Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name

Pause here with a coma. It read likes "Holy Father, watch over them with your own name".

which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.

The name which you have given me.

However, you're right in that it is more natural to parse it like this:

Holy Father, watch over them

on account of your own name which you have given me,

in order that they may be one just as we are one.

So there are two possible parse trees for two different meanings.

NIV makes it unambiguous with a comma:

Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name**,** [coma]
the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

At https://biblehub.com/john/17-11.htm, 13 out of 27 versions use a comma after "name" to disambiguate.