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KJV Isaiah 59: (20) And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. (21) As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

We know that the apostles were beneficiaries of the new covenant and their mouths were supernaturally filled with God's messages but what about their children and grandchildren? What of their seed today?

  • The words expressed by the apostles are still expressed today (by those who faithfully express them). – Nigel J Nov 13 '18 at 19:27
  • Isaiah 59:21 has nothing to do with the infallibility of all Jews, just as Matthew 16:18 has nothing to do with the infallibility of all Christians. – Lucian Nov 17 '18 at 13:34
  • So what does it have to do with? – Ruminator Nov 17 '18 at 13:43
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I cannot see that Isa 59:21 implies infallibility. It is simply discussing the requirement of God's people, the "covenant" people to preach the Word and the Gospel (1 Cor 9:16). The NT is full of examples of those who preached the (inspired) words of God being imperfect.

  • Paul and Barnabas had a very "sharp" dispute that led directly to their parting, unable to work together. Acts 15:36-40
  • Peter behaved badly toward Gentile believers and had to be admonished by Paul. Gal 2:11
  • Timothy had to be corrected about some of his habits. 1 Tim 5:23
  • Jesus had to rebuke Peter about Peter's betrayal. John 21:15-19
  • Jesus had to rebuke Thomas for his doubting. John 20:29
  • Jesus had to very gently correct and encourage the greatest prophet in John the Baptist when he was told "blessed is he who does not fall away on account of me" (Matt 11:3, 6).
  • Many of the OT patriarch made terrible mistakes and were far from infallible as is well known.

This is part of the genius of the Gospel - God uses very human vessels (2 Tim 2:21) with all their problems (Rom 3:9-18) to accomplish great things (John 14:12). Even Paul described himself as "chief of sinners" (1 Tim 1:15).

Therefore, I see Isa 59:21 simply as a prophecy that God's Word(s) would always be preached by His "covenant" people. Essentially, Jesus repeated this in Matt 28:19, 2 Tim 4:2, 2 Cor 2:17 etc. My reading of history suggests that this has always been true, despite the limitations of our humanity.

  • Are you saying that you read "shall not depart" as a command? – Ruminator Apr 12 at 22:27
  • “who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” ‭‭John‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭The descendants are to be born of God and in their mouth the words of Isaiah will ring true. I really agree with the last paragraph @mac’smusings – Autodidact Apr 12 at 22:28
  • What about the fact that he refers to: 1) the new covenant (with Israel); 2) "Zion"; 3) "in Jacob"? – Ruminator Apr 12 at 22:58
  • @Ruminator if you’re asking me the New Covenant was with Israel which is the Church and the ten lost tribes can re-enter into covenant via John 1:13 not by blood lineage anymore and Romans 7 explains how if the first husband, Jesus (the angel on mt.Sinai) dies the divorced wife can remarry. Judah is reference to the two tribes that remained, Judah and Benjamin or Jews. Acts 26:7 essentially calls the church the twelve tribes, the ten lost tribes mixed with gentiles can come in under the New Covenant. It’s all consistent. It was always about Israel and in this seed all the nations would return – Autodidact Apr 13 at 1:27
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    @Autodidact You or Mac. I've never contemplated your specific view which looks well thought out. But I think this would be better explored in a separate post. – Ruminator Apr 13 at 1:31

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