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Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven". I am trying to understand if the war is before creation. Gen. 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." I know that our God is perfect in all His ways and if He creates it then it has to be all good. And verse 2, "The earth was without form and void". Could Revelation 12:7 fall in between the two verses?

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    The context of Rev12 war is not placed anywhere near the creation account. What is wrong with the earth being empty and purposeless at the beginning of Creation? That doesn’t speak to God’s character it speaks to the order of events and the phases of each event. The earth did mot remain in that state for more than a day. – Nihil Sine Deo Jan 13 at 4:03
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    There is an interpretation that says it is immediately after the ascension of Jesus Christ to the throne in heaven, that Satan is cast out. For Satan came into the presence of God, with the sons of God, as recorded in Job. – Nigel J Jan 13 at 5:18
  • This passage is giving framework to Jesus’ place in the timeline. there was a war... which is before Adam. v5-6 encapsulates 2000 yrs, then it jumps to v10 and talks of end time events v10 – user48152 Jan 13 at 6:10
  • Your trying to connect this passage in Revelation with the ‘gap’ (or such like) theory, and there is no case for this. An exegetical argument supporting this is simply not possible. The Revelation 12 section is describing the final ‘eviction’, which takes place mid-Tribulation. – Dave Jan 13 at 17:35
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The "war in heaven" would be unlike anything that we would be accustomed to seeing and is probably (at least in part) symbolic language. However, as far as timing of this war in heaven is concerned, we should note the following:

  • Rev 12:9 says, "But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels." See also V10-13. At the conclusion of the war - Satan and his angels were banished from heaven.

This appears to be an allusion to something Jesus said as a prophecy:

  • Luke 10:18 - So He told them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

However, in the Old Testament in Job 1 and 2 we see Satan entering heaven on two occasions for a conference. (We are not told how many other times this occurred.)

Thus, it appears that after Jesus' death and resurrection, Satan was banished from heaven finishing the war in heaven- which now continues on earth (Eph 6:10-17).

I do not see any direct link between Gen 1 and Satan's war in heaven. All I see is his banishment from heaven following Jesus resurrection.

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    This is my own understanding, also. (Up-voted +1.) – Nigel J Jan 13 at 10:43
  • Thank you for your input it is very helpful. – raul biscarro Jan 14 at 1:04
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17 Now the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name!” 18 And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. Luke 10:18

This is in the context of the disciples having their victory over evil spirits. Jesus expresses his unique view of the state of affairs (as the only man without sin and the resultant corrupted mind)

We must not presuppose the time frame for this as some time other than the immediate context. Jesus expression is intended to teach his fledgling students, the import of what they are dealing with - the devil is well aware and is paying attention to their actions, he is around to hinder any way he can.

Regarding Rev 12, there is quite a jumble of different times mentioned which clearly are not sequential.

There is no reason to surmise this event is yet future based on such a premise.

John is recounting a vision that clearly has many disturbing and incomprehensible scenes. It is not intended as a timeline of events, but a brief synopsis of the important contributing factors to the plan of salvation - both for and against.

Satan is already king of the world before Jesus arrives on the scene and his ministry begins.

11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb

This is a a sign of Satan’s rule drawing to an end, therefore it already is in place (since the garden) but now, in Christ, being displaced steadily and surely.

The event of v7 cannot be future, it must be pre mankind, Adam.

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Revelation 12:7 and there was war in heaven, is this before the creation Gen. 1:1 or is it in between Gen.1:1 and Gen. 1:2?

Revelation 1:1 NASB

The Revelation of Jesus Christ

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and [a]communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

The Revelation -- "the things which must soon take place"-- was given to John about 96 C.E. hence the war in heaven broke out well after the creation. Read also Rev.12:9 below

Revelation 12:7-9 (NASB)

The Angel, Michael

7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they did not prevail, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

From Vs 9 it is obvious that the war broke in heaven well after the creation, for John wrote: "the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world", (mankind) was thrown down to the earth."

So when did the war in heaven break up? The war broke out at the " end of the times of the Gentiles." Luke wrote,

Luke 21:24 (NASB)

24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

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  • Sry, I don’t follow that logic at all. You are not allowing for an interjection, as Rev often includes in its delivery. The events described do not have to be sequential. – user48152 Jan 14 at 10:06
  • When did or do "the times of the Gentiles" finish? – Lesley Jan 14 at 12:19
  • Lesley: Luke 21:24 (NASB ) " And they will fall by the edge of the sword and will be led captive into all the nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." The Kings that ruled in Jerusalem from the House of King David sat at the throne in Jerusalem as representatives of God himself. 1 Chronicles 29:23 (YLT) And Solomon sitteth on the throne of Jehovah for king instead of David his father, and prospereth, and all Israel hearken unto him, – Ozzie Ozzie Jan 14 at 16:53
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    Forgive me for being so slow on the uptake, but I'm still no further forward because you don't say when this war in heaven broke out. However, I agree with you that this war happened post-creation. – Lesley Jan 16 at 15:17
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    If you believe the destruction of Jerusalem by the babylonians happened in 607 B.C., are you're saying this war in heaven broke out in A.D. 1914? – Lesley Jan 23 at 10:16

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