Is the beginning of creation at Revelation 3:14 the same as at Proverbs 8:22?

What is the 'beginning of creation?'

Is it when :

God first spoke and created the heavens and the earth

God breathed life into Adam

When Adam and Eve started to have children

When Noah began to multiply

When Christ was formed in the womb

When new life was formed through the cross.

In all of the proof texts used in discussions, can we identify which is being referred to, and then correlate what is being said about them?

  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Soldarnal Jan 23 '20 at 18:40
  • Question was flagged as being poor. this is my attempt at improving it. Feel free to roll back if I have changed the intent of it. – Bob Jones Jun 28 '20 at 14:21
  • Oh and קנה CAN mean create see studybible.info/strongs/H7069 – Bob Jones Jun 28 '20 at 14:23

Beyond the textual issues in both the Hebrew and Greek with the passage in Proverbs, I see three significant difficulties against connecting Revelation and Proverbs:

  • ἀρχή does not mean beginning as beginning in time
  • The Gospel record
  • In Proverbs wisdom is personified as a woman in search of a husband; in Revelation the Lamb is waiting for the marriage supper for which His bride has made herself ready.

The Meaning of ἀρχή
In addition to "beginning" ἀρχή can mean the first place, principality, rule, magistracy:

And having closely-watched Him, they sent forth spies pretending themselves to be righteous, in order that they might take-hold-of a statement of His, so as to hand Him over to the rule and the authority of the governor. (Luke 20:20 DLNT)
καὶ παρατηρήσαντες ἀπέστειλαν ἐγκαθέτους ὑποκρινομένους ἑαυτοὺς δικαίους εἶναι ἵνα ἐπιλάβωνται αὐτοῦ λόγου ὥστε παραδοῦναι αὐτὸν τῇ ἀρχῇ καὶ τῇ ἐξουσίᾳ τοῦ ἡγεμόνος

This is an affirmation of what Jesus told the disciples:

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
(Matthew 28:18) [ESV]

"Rule" or "sovereignty" is also a common OT use. For example:

With you is rule on a day of your power among the splendors of the holy ones. From the womb, before the Morning-star, I brought you forth. (Psalm 110(109):3 LXX)
μετὰ σοῦ ἡ ἀρχὴ ἐν ἡμέρᾳ τῆς δυνάμεώς σου ἐν ταῗς λαμπρότησιν τῶν ἁγίων ἐκ γαστρὸς πρὸ ἑωσφόρου ἐξεγέννησά σε

Because a child was born for us, a son also given to us, whose sovereignty was upon his shoulders. (Isaiah 9:6(5) LXX)
ὅτι παιδίον ἐγεννήθη ἡμῗν υἱὸς καὶ ἐδόθη ἡμῗν οὗ ἡ ἀρχὴ ἐγενήθη ἐπὶ τοῦ ὤμου αὐτοῦ καὶ καλεῗται τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ μεγάλης βουλῆς ἄγγελος ἐγὼ γὰρ ἄξω εἰρήνην ἐπὶ τοὺς ἄρχοντας εἰρήνην καὶ ὑγίειαν αὐτῷ

These two passages both associate the Messiah to a position identified as ἀρχή. Psalm 110 was cited by Jesus as recorded by Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and by Peter in Acts and five times in Hebrews. Thus, ἀρχὴ when used of the Messiah means "rule" or "sovereignty." In fact, treating it as "beginning" for the purpose of making Jesus into a created being, would negate the Messianic character in the Old Testament and contradict what Hebrews explicitly says about Melchizedek:

The Lord swore and will not change his mind, “You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchisdek.” (Psalm 110(109):4 LXX)

5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”; 6 as he says also in another place, “You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek.” (Hebrews 5)

1 For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 and to him Abraham apportioned a tenth part of everything. He is first, by translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then he is also king of Salem, that is, king of peace. 3 He is without father or mother or genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever. (Hebrews 7)

Melchizedek has no beginning (ἀρχή). He is without father or mother having neither a beginning of days nor end of life. He is not created and is eternal.

The Gospel Record
Jesus explained the Scriptures which were written about Hims:

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)

Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:44-45)

First Jesus interpreted Moses and the Prophets to the two on the way to Emmaus. Then He explained everything written about Himself which was in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms to His disciples. Since He did not explain anything in Proverbs which was written about Him, it is unlikely, He would make an allusion to the Laodiceans. Rather, it seems Jesus was purposeful to to open the disciples minds to everything in the Scriptures written about Him and so the passage in Proverbs is not about Him.

Man, Woman, and Marriage
In Proverbs, Wisdom is personified as a woman. This is done in a way which states natural gender, not "grammatical gender" (i.e. חָכְמָה or σοφία is feminine):

Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,” and call insight your intimate friend (Proverbs 7:4)

As a sister, wisdom is a woman. In addition, the book ends with the "Woman of Valour" as the ideal wife which likely completes the personification.

In Revelation, a culminating event is the marriage supper of the Lamb:

Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready (Revelation 19:7)

The Lamb is male and will take a bride who is female. It is unreasonable to suggest John is trying to allude to the wisdom in Proverbs.

There is no justification for connecting Revelation 3:14 to Proverbs 8:22 either directly or as an allusion, or to mean Jesus was the first entity created. Such a reading would contradict what Hebrews says about Jesus as the High Priest and what Revelation says about the marriage supper of the Lamb.


Is the beginning of creation at Revelation 3:14 the same as at Proverbs 8:22?

God's first creation was his "only begotten Son" (John 3:16) the beginning of the creation of God, Revelation 3:14 (NASB) reads:

14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:"

The first born of all creation was used by God to creating all other things, both in the heavens and on the earth, visible and invisible.

Colossians 1:15-17 (NASB)

15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For [b]by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things [d]hold together."

John inspired by the Spirit of God concerning this Son, the Word ,wrote:

"All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men." ( John 1:3-4 NASB)

The apostle identifies the Word as Jesus Christ, who had become flesh.

John 1: 10 ,14, and 17 (NASB)

10 "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ."

As wisdom personified , this One is represented as saying, that God created him at the beginning of his works, and also tells us of his association with the Creator ,as the creator's "master craftsman."

Proverbs 8:22-31 (NET)

22 "The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. 23 From eternity I have been fashioned, from the beginning, from before the world existed. 24 When there were no deep oceans I was born, when there were no springs overflowing with water; 25 before the mountains were set in place— before the hills—I was born, 26 before he made the earth and its fields, or the top soil of the world."

27 "When he established the heavens, I was there; when he marked out the horizon[az] over the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above, when he secured the fountains of the deep, 29 when he gave the sea his decree that the waters should not pass over his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, 30 then I was beside him as a master craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, rejoicing before him at all times, 31 rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth, and delighting in its people."

In view of the close association of God, the Creator with his "master craftsman" - his only begotten Son- Jesus, in their creative activity and that the Son being the radiance of God's glory (Heb.1:3 NET) Revelation 3:14 should be understood as an allusion to Proverbs 8:22.


Proverbs 8

22“The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth.

What is the 'beginning of creation?'

Is it when :

God first spoke and created the heavens and the earth. Possibly

God breathed life into Adam. No

When Adam and Eve started to have children. No

When Noah began to multiply. No

When Christ was formed in the womb. No

When new life was formed through the cross. No

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