6

Having read the presentation myself, I find the idea pretty interesting. After all, it is quite likely that the Lord's Prayer was taught in Aramaic and not Koine Greek and, as such, would sound very different in accentuation, rhyme and tone - let alone the rhythm that good verse demands! There are a few problems with his process that lead me to say we ...


6

Analysis of the Greek Below is given the Greek of the majority text for both the Matthew and Luke passages. The UBS/NA text omits the words below that are in [brackets]. Thus, Luke 11:2 does not contain the phrase in Luke if one follows the minority reading. Note that otherwise, the passages are the same, so I have only translated Matthew here (since it ...


6

The tradition that has come down through the Eastern Church is to interpret ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ as "the evil one". That is how the Lord's Prayer appears in every (Eastern) Orthodox Prayer Book and Service Book that is in English, including those translations undertaken by the Greek Orthodox Church. This is probably for most here fairly tenuous support, but I ...


6

As a supplement to Frank Luke's answer, I add another way of thinking about it. The construction in English is very similar to the Greek: not X, but [instead] Y. (Wallace calls ἀλλὰ here a contrastive conjunction.1) For example, if I say "Put not your hand into boiling water, but use a spoon." The contrast is between: X= put your hand into boiling water ...


5

The word translated "but" is alla. It is used to show the next clause is adverse to the first. Usually, the word is translated as "but." According to the NET translation team, it can be used in the sense of: 1) but 1a) nevertheless, notwithstanding 1b) an objection 1c) an exception 1d) a restriction 1e) nay, rather, yea, moreover 1f) forms a transition ...


5

The Heart Any understanding of this instruction must take account of the logic of Matthew 5:1-6:6 - which is all about the heart. For example when Jesus speaks about adultery in Matthew 5: 27“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed ...


5

In light of Biblical cosmology, it would be out of character for the author to speak of a particular heaven and not also have in mind a corresponding location with respect to the earth, and the corresponding heavens. Visually the earth is covered by a hard beaten out structure called the firmament, then above it is another heaven. A physical place but with ...


5

It is true that the verb here to lead (εἰσενέγκῃς) is a subjunctive, but given the negation μὴ, Wallace and others call this construction a subjunctive of prohibition. Expressing a prohibition using μὴ followed by an aorist subjunctive is all too common.1 Is there any compelling reason to render it in English as a subjunctive, e.g. "so that we might ...


3

In view of James 1:13, 14 ("God does not tempt us"), Matt 6:13 ("do not lead us into temptation") appears to create a contradiction. I am not familiar with the pronouncements of Pope Francis so I assume the OP has correct quoted him. The basic problem here (as will be seen later) is not a matter of translation but of the theology surrounding the so-called "...


3

There is plenty of evidence to show that ancient Israel believed that the LORD (= YHWH) was their true "Father" such as: Jer 31:9, I [YHWH V7] will make them walk beside streams of waters, on a level path where they will not stumble. For I am Israel’s Father, and Ephraim is My firstborn. Mal 1:6, “A son honours his father, and a servant his master....


3

The operative verb referenced by the OP in the Lord's prayer is ἐλθέτω from the root verb ἔρχομαι. The form ἐλθέτω is Aorist Imperative Active - 3rd Person Singular. Strictly, this might be translated something like: Let the kingdom of God come [as a command] Note that this verb is neither perfect (ie, has a completed aspect) nor is it future (ie, your ...


3

Father It was actually not very common before Jesus arrived on the scene for God to be referred to Father. Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology notes: This portrayal, however, is surprisingly rare in the Old Testament. There God is specifically called the Father of the nation of Israel ( Deut 32:6 ; Isa 63:16 ; [twice] 64:8 ; Jeremiah 3:4 ...


3

Joachim Jeremias in New Testament theology p.202 says that it means 'do not let me fall victim, not to everyday temptations, but to the last great trial'. He says that Jesus expected his mission to lead to a time of terrible widespread suffering before God's reign starts, and therefore the disciples are to pray to be protected from apostasy.


3

According to Matthew, this is part of the Sermon on the Mount which begins in 5:1 and continues through the end of Matthew 7. In 5:1, Matthew states: "Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them." so we can conclude that according to the author of Matthew that this is ...


3

Prefacing the prayer of the Our Father, Jesus says, “Pray, then, in this way.” In this way could mean not only in the same words but also in the same spirit. from Ellicott's Commentary (9) After this manner.--Literally, thus. The word sanctions at once the use of the words themselves, and of other prayers--prescribed, or unpremeditated--after the same ...


2

Why pray, “lead us not into temptation”? Matthew 6:13 (NET Bible) 13 "And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one." “lead us not into temptation” or "do not let us give into temptation." God does not tempt anyone (James 1:13) ,however the Bible does speak that God allows us to be tempted, two examples in the scriptures is ...


2

The Greek word eispheró is 'to bring in', not 'to lead into'. The Greek word peirasmos is 'testing', not 'temptation'. Here it is about our testing God's faithfulness. The text reads: 'Do not let us brought into a [place of] testing [Your faithfulness]." Note: Recently Catholic wants to change translation as 'Abandon us not when in temptation'. www....


2

St. Thomas Aquinas, in his Expositio in orationem dominicam a. 6, explains "and lead us not into temptation": But does God lead one to evil, that he should pray: "Lead us not into temptation"? I reply that God is said to lead a person into evil by permitting him to the extent that, because of his many sins, He withdraws His grace from ...


2

Rather than the difference arising from Matthew 6:9 alone, I think the difference in understanding is the result of people being familiar with Matthew's version over Luke's or vice versa. Matt 6:9 (KJV) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven... Luke 11:2 (KJV) And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in ...


2

A Review of the Greek More or less, this is a so-called 'literal' translation. Exept that it isn't even English in certain places (e.g. "thy will of yours"). On the site itself, it cites the Greek word corresponding to its translation in the text. Here is the Greek for the prayer from Matthew 6,1 followed by how I would 'literally' translate them. ...


2

it is necessary to understand the "game" of the prepositions *εἰς (into) πειρασμόν and *ἀπὸ (from) τοῦ πονηροῦ, the center of peirasmon receives advance of linguistic meaning, and transcends the very concept of evil πονηροῦ. It is the context that will define whether peirasmon will be better translated by temptation or tribulation. God does not lead his ...


2

The Lord's prayer is found (apart from Luke) in Matt 6:9-13. The word translated "heaven" or "heavens" is οὐρανός (ouranos). It occurs twice in the the Lord's prayer with two different meanings and corresponding conjugations as follows: V9 - Our Father in heaven; οὐρανοῖς which is dative masculine plural V10 - the will of you in heaven,...


2

Q1 The verb here is Ἐλθέτω (elthetō), meaning "to come", and it is in the imperative form (think "commanding" something). Other ways to render this in English would be statements such as "let it come", "may it come", or, if we wanted to apply the seldom used English subjunctive to capture some nuance, my translation ...


2

What's throwing you is the brevity of wording and the use of the subjunctive, the latter of which is increasingly rare in contemporary English. If it were a simple statement it would just be 'thy kingdom comes', and here we're praying 'We pray that thy kingdom comes'. But that would jar in the ear of an English speaker before the 20th century because the ...


1

Matthew 6.11 τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον Luke 11.3 τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δίδου ἡμῖν τὸ καθʼ ἡμέραν IMHO, Matthew wrote first and Luke the used his work as a source--that's a minority opinion. Thus, Matthew invented the word and Luke retained it, although he slightly modified the phrase. That would make sense, as Matthew was a Jew ...


1

I'm no fan of Pope Francis - and as such am not defending the suggestion to change the traditional translation of the Our Father - however, what he was advocating seems to be more that there should be a more helpful translation for modern people of the Lord's Prayer. A translation, after all, can be accomplished in at least two ways: by an attempt to capture ...


1

I was taught in seminary: "IN Earth" - Adam, first man, his name is derived from "earth or dirt", not kosmos like, "...For God so loved the WORLD - Kosmos.." but, "...thy will be done IN earth (or man/Adam) as it is IN heaven (or God)..." Conclusion: "...may your will be done in ME, as in You/God..." Your thoughts please.


1

Whoa, that's a tall order. One unfortunately I'm not sure who could fill. That weird word epiousios, is so unique and hard to figure out because it's a word describing something given once that doesn't run out. "Give us this day our once for all time bread" Shona Syriac Matthew 6:11 ܗܒ ܠܢ ܠܚܡܐ ܕܤܘܢܩܢܢ ܝܘܡܢܐ mutipei nhasi chikafu chedu chemisi yose; Our ...


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