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Q. Is the Paul of Philippians 3:20-21 the same author, or teaching the same kind of resurrection as described in 1 Corinthians 15:35-38?

[Phl 3:20-21 YLT] [20] For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await -- the Lord Jesus Christ -- [21] who shall transform the body of our humiliation to its becoming conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working of his power, even to subject to himself the all things.

[1Co 15:35-38 NET] [35] But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" [36] Fool! What you sow will not come to life unless it dies. [37] And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare seed - perhaps of wheat or something else. [38] But God gives it a body just as he planned, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.

In one prediction, the body is transformed. In the other, the body dies off and an entirely, unrelated body is provided by God (with no DNA stuff going on). Are these two predictions by the same author, predicting the same event?

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  • 1
    + 1 tough question... your moniker is well deserved. I suggest unpacking the quotes to explain why you think they may not agree in terms of the resurrection. It took me a while to get to... but now that I understand it, I'm stumped for the present and will join you in rumination. Dec 13, 2023 at 23:30
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    Transformation is same as "providing a new unrelated body" or rather a renewal, not substitution of it entirely. The YLT is a mistranslation, should be avoided.
    – Michael16
    Dec 15, 2023 at 5:01
  • Sort of like declassifying classified documents with your mind?
    – Ruminator
    Dec 15, 2023 at 5:08

2 Answers 2

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"Q. Is the Paul of Philippians 3:20-21 the same author, or teaching the same kind of resurrection as described in 1 Corinthians 15:35-38?"

Yes, Paul is the same author, in Philippians Paul is stating where our citizenship is going to be, and therefore will need to have a different body for the celestial realm. It will be a different body not like the terrestrial body we have today.

Israel's saints on the other hand, will have a terrestrial body that will be similar to what people have now. Of course, it will be of different glory as stated.

there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but one is the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly; 1 Co 15:40

Remember in Ephesians, the Gentiles are given an allotment which is in the celestial realm along with an administration that had been concealed from the eons in God. Ephesians 3:9

and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Op,

"In one prediction, the body is transformed. In the other, the body dies off and an entirely, unrelated body is provided by God."

Those in this new administration will definitely have their bodies transformed to the glory of His celestial body.

who shall transform the body of our humiliation to its becoming conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working of his power, even to subject to himself the all things.

Those whose inheritance is on the Earth will have new bodies that will be like Jesus when they see Him.

Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is. 1 John 3:2

"Relationship to God is expressed by various figures of speech. The Father has children by regeneration and sons by the new creation. Entrance into the kingdom on earth for the circumcision is aptly figured by a new begettal. They will go through a process corresponding to a birth to fit them for the millennial kingdom… (John 3:3)

Such a change would not be radical enough to fit us for the heavenly realms, so Paul speaks of a secret connected with a resurrection, by which we are to be changed from terrestrial to celestial creatures. (1 Co.15.52) hence we are not in the regeneration, but in a new creation (2Co 5:17). Concordant commentary.

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  • Am I correct to infer that you are a JW? If so, and I wrote a different, conflicting answer, and you found the answer convincing and changed your opinion, would you be disfellowshipped/shunned (if they found out)? Thanks.
    – Ruminator
    Dec 15, 2023 at 20:22
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    No I am not, don't know what I wrote that made you ask that question. Not in any denomination. In the body of Christ, and just study scripture. Of course, many of my views have changed over the last 45 years since I became a believer.
    – Sherrie
    Dec 15, 2023 at 23:09
  • Thanks for answering my odd question, even though you certainly didn't have to.
    – Ruminator
    Dec 15, 2023 at 23:12
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The short answer is that prior to the end of the Jewish age people died and slept in Sheol/Hades, but since the Day of the LORD, things are different.

The longer answer is:

The “key” to understanding the death experience in scripture is, I believe, found in 1 Corinthians 15. Unfortunately, most people understand this passage as referring to resurrection:

[1Co 15:51-57 NLT] (51) But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! (52) It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. (53) For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies. (54) Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die, this Scripture will be fulfilled: "Death is swallowed up in victory. (55) O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" (56) For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. (57) But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

In reality, (in my humbler than thou opinion), he is revealing a “wonderful secret”… that death is not going to be the experience of everyone. In the past, everyone died. Not so in the future.

Now, the first century Christians, when they spoke of “death”, they knew enough from Paul’s writings that it wasn’t really death, as a permanent fate, but only a nap; “sleep”:

[Jhn 11:11-14 NLT] (11) Then he said, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but now I will go and wake him up." (12) The disciples said, "Lord, if he is sleeping, he will soon get better!" (13) They thought Jesus meant Lazarus was simply sleeping, but Jesus meant Lazarus had died. (14) So he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead.

[1Th 4:13-14 NLT] (13) And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died so you will not grieve like people who have no hope. (14) For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died.

This was because since righteous Abel, all who died went to a holding cell referred to in Hebrew as “Sheol” but in Greek, hADES to await the day of judgment. So this is the picture:

Abel is murdered by his brother, Cain he sleeps the sleep of death in hADES Jesus descends as a “breath of life” to all in hADES and Abel is carried by angels to the Happy Place to accompany Jesus at his second coming So death, sleep, resurrection.

But the “secret” of which Paul writes is that Jesus destroys hADES. The “sleep” step is eliminated. hADES is destroyed in the same fire that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple: [Rev 20:14 NLT] (14) Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death.

So the “mystery”/secret of which he speaks is the fact that since the first century, sleeping in death/hADES is over with and the saints from that time on are immediately transformed. No more sleep nonsense.

[1Co 15:51-57 NKJV] (51) Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- (52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. (54) So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (55) "O Death, where [is] your sting? O Hades, where [is] your victory?" (56) The sting of death [is] sin, and the strength of sin [is] the law. (57) But thanks [be] to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

And Paul says that not only won’t the saints any more have to sleep for thousands of years, they won’t have to sleep at all! And yet they will be changed/transformed.

For more information, please visit my Quora Space, Biblical Eschatology

The victory of 1 Corinthians 15 is not resurrection but rather the casting of hADES into the lake of fire so that the saints are immortal, no longer subject to death and not requiring resurrection. They pass immediately from this vale of tears into God’s presence because they have become immortal:

[Jhn 5:24 NKJV] (24) "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

[1Jo 3:14 NKJV] (14) We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love [his] brother abides in death.

[Rev 21:4 NKJV] (4) "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

All of this was accomplished in the first century:

[1Co 15:50-57 NKJV] (50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. (51) Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- (52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. (54) So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." (55) "O Death, where [is] your sting? O Hades, where [is] your victory?" (56) The sting of death [is] sin, and the strength of sin [is] the law. (57) But thanks [be] to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[2Ti 1:10 NASB95] [10] but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

[Heb 2:14-15 NASB95] [14] Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, [15] and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.

[Jhn 11:23-26 NASB95] [23] Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." [24] Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." [25] Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, [26] and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Answer summary: Prior to the abolition of death, the righteous dead sleeping in Hades had to have their old body resurrected and changed, but in the Kingdom Age (the current age) the saints are immediately changed.

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  • Please edit this to explain in detail the full answer, not just a short summary.
    – curiousdannii
    Dec 15, 2023 at 23:50
  • Perhaps you did not notice the link to the longer explanation? It is all there in a single click. Should I reproduce the long answer in my answer? I believe I "provided" the long answer as well as the short one.
    – Ruminator
    Dec 16, 2023 at 1:11
  • Yes, you need to reproduce it here. The substance of the answer needs to be here, because links can break. This is standard across the whole SE network.
    – curiousdannii
    Dec 16, 2023 at 1:13

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