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Past discussions about whether the Lord Jesus Christ (the Amen) is a created being or the source of creation, have not to my knowledge significantly touched on this question which I think would greatly help us to make a logical conclusion on this issue.

Rev 3:14 (BSB) To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Originator of God’s creation.

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There is no obvious reason why the Creator God of this verse should be a different God from the Creator mentioned in the first verse of Genesis or elsewhere in the Bible.

If you are asking about the meaning of the expression "beginning of God's creation", I would explain it in the words of John's gospel; "All things were made through him [that is, the Word] and without him was not anything made that was made" (John ch1 v3, RSV).

(Incidentally, that statement in John logically excludes the Word from the category "things that were made".)

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    Thanks for answering. Just to clarify, you equate God creative act at Rev. 3:14 at the same time happening at Genesis 1 as if they happened at the same time and are refering to the same point in the distant past. Is this accurate?
    – Dadz Says
    Mar 30, 2023 at 16:24
  • Yes, the Revelation verse is referring back to the original creation. it isn't describing a new event. That is the root of the Amen's authority as "witness". Mar 30, 2023 at 16:30
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    So where the angels already created or yet to be created when genesis 1 commences?
    – Dadz Says
    Mar 30, 2023 at 16:32
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    Another thing , is it accurate to say that the God in gen 1, Jn 1( where the Word was with ) and Rev 3 refers to the Father Jehovah / Yahweh ?
    – Dadz Says
    Mar 30, 2023 at 16:46
  • @StephenDisraeli You said, ("Incidentally, that statement in John logically excludes the Word from the category "things that were made".) Can you please explain what you mean by your statement? Are you referring to the spoken word or to Jesus Christ as the "Logos/Word?"
    – Mr. Bond
    Mar 31, 2023 at 17:58
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There is only one God to choose from (ie, not multiple gods):

  • Gen 1:1 - In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth
  • Deut 4:35 - You were shown these things so that you would know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides Him.
  • Deut 6:4 - Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One.
  • Isa 44:6 - Thus says the LORD, the King and Redeemer of Israel, the LORD of Hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God but Me." [Compare Rev 1:17, 18, 2:8, 22:13.]
  • Isa 44:8 - Do not tremble or fear. Have I not told you and declared it long ago? You are My witnesses! Is there any God but Me? There is no other Rock; I know not one.”
  • Isa 44:24 - Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who by Myself spread out the earth,
  • Isa 45:5, 6 - I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me, so that all may know, from where the sun rises to where it sets, that there is none but Me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.
  • Isa 45:18 - For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens—He is God; He formed the earth and fashioned it; He established it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am the LORD, and there is no other."
  • 1 Cor 8:4 - So about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one.

Let there be no question that there is but One God, the Creator of all things and the NT presents Jesus as creator as per John 1:3, 10, Col 1:16, 17, Heb 1:2, 10.

Note about ἀρχὴ

One of the important/pivotal words in Rev 3:14 is ἀρχὴ (arche) which has two distinct sets of meanings:

  • when it refers to either an inanimate object or an abstract idea, it always means "beginning or start", eg, John 2:11, Heb 7:3, Matt 24:8, Mark 13:8, etc.
  • however, when it refers to a person, the word means "originator", "one with whom a process begins" (BDAG), eg, Col 1:18, Rev 1:8, 3:14, 21:6, 22;13, OR, the authority figure who initiates activity or a process, eg, Luke 20:20, 12:11, Titus 3:1, etc.

Thus, Rev 3:14 cannot mean that Jesus is the beginning of God's creation; but must refer to Jesus being the initiator or originator of God's creation.

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    Thanks. In thoe verses LORD was always stated but for clariity LORD here is just a sibstitute for the divije name of the Father , Jehovah or if you prefer , Yahweh. Right? If this is so the God of Revelation 3:14 is Jehovah / Yahweh.
    – Dadz Says
    Mar 31, 2023 at 5:25
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    Who is creating in Rev 3:14 God the Father or the Amen ? Plainly it is not the Amen, the text plainly state (whether the Amen s the beginner or beginning doesnt matter and talks about God's / the Fathet / Jehovah / Yahweh 's creaation and not the Amen's ceeation.
    – Dadz Says
    Mar 31, 2023 at 5:33
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    @Dottard. Your comment "This makes the Amen God, and thus, the YHWH of the OT because only YHWH created as quoted above (Isa 44 & 45)." sounds like modalism. Jesus is the Amen in Revelation 3:14 not God. Jesus did not ascribe creation to himself, but to God. Mark 13:19. You can't say that Jesus and God count as "one", John 8:17-18. So, who is the Creator, YHWH or Jesus? Mar 31, 2023 at 6:12
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    The question have not been answered. So who then is the God that the Amen is with in Rev 3:14? The Amen or Jesus? Is he Jehovah? Or is the God here the Amen + Jehovah + Holy Spirit? Is this such a very hard question that will need a long explanation ?
    – Dadz Says
    Mar 31, 2023 at 9:55
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    I think my question is very very difficullt that it appears that you cant not identify who of tge seperatr person is the Gid in rev 3:14 or its just , this is a very uncomfortable question to ask to trinitarians.
    – Dadz Says
    Mar 31, 2023 at 10:31
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Jesus is "the Word of God" and the "the Son of God." That little word "of" has an important meaning. It establishes a relationship between two separate entities. A son is not his own father, nor can a father be his own son. If God has a son, therefore, that son cannot be God Himself.

But the Son can, and does, speak for God--hence the "Word" title. According to the Scriptures, Jesus, as the Word, has spoken everything into existence, being the spokesperson for God.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3, KJV)

Jesus said:

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (John 14:10, KJV)

Clearly, the Father is in Jesus, dwelling in him. This does not say that the Father is Jesus--no; they are two separate entities. However, this does tell us something important: Jesus speaks the Father's words.

So if Jesus speaks the Father's words, then if he were to say "I AM God"--those words would be God's words, because the Father is God. As Jesus says plainly, he is not speaking his own words.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. (John 12:49, KJV)

Again, we see clearly that 1) Jesus is not speaking his own words, but those of the Father who sent him; and 2) These are two separate entities.

The Father is not sending himself. Nor is the Father commanding himself to speak certain words. That would be irrational. And we know who the Father is, for Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17 and called Him "the only true God" (verse 3). It follows, then, that Jesus, who is separate from the Father, cannot be "the only true God." In fact, he cannot be God at all--but God dwells in him. (See also 2 Corinthians 5:19.)

The same John who wrote the book of John and said all things were made by "the word," writes in the book of Revelation:

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; (Revelation 3:14, KJV)

That word "beginning" is from the Greek "ἀρχὴ", which means just that: beginning. Every time this word appears in the Greek, the KJV translates it as "beginning." To render this word as "originator" is borderline irresponsible: if one wishes to use this root, why not "origin" in place of "originator"? Whereas "beginning" can fill both senses of meaning, this cannot be done with the "origin" root. Translators have done the readers interpretation for them. And does it fit?

Consider:

The beginning ("ἀρχὴ") of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; (Mark 1:1, KJV)

This is the exact same Greek word. Should it read "The originator of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God"?

Obviously, that would be inaccurate. Neither is "originator" accurate in Revelation 3:14.

Conclusion

The "God" referenced in Revelation 3:14 is the only true God--the Father. Jesus, God's son, speaks God's word, including the word of creation which has brought all things into existence. God has created everything through Jesus.

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  • If I'm not mistaken, I think we may be on the same wave length here. It's an upvote from me. If you find anything wrong with my own answer, please by all means say so. Dec 12, 2023 at 20:59
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Who is the God referred to at Rev, 3:14?

The God referred to in Rev, 3:14, is undoubtedly The Almighty/Father Himself. The Amen, the faithful and true witness - as at the time of the writing of the verse in question - is undoubtedly Jesus (previously the "Word of God"):-

"the beginning of the creation of God."

But, in what sense? ... in the sense that he - the Word; to later become the Word, made flesh, in the guise of Jesus - is the head or prince/ruler of the creation, as befits the only begotten of God -John 1:14,18

The Word, should be looked upon, IMO, as the CONTRACTOR, for the ARCHITECT (God). The ARCHITECT creates/formulates a vision and the CONTRACTOR makes that vision a reality. Therein lies the confusion, if this is to be a true concept, as to who (of the two) really is the CREATOR - see Proverbs 8: 22-31, which I and others interpret Christologically, as presenting a picture of Christ (the Word that was) rather than simply the eternal character of wisdom.

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  • I view the God of Jesus as the only true God and Creator. Jesus himself said it Mark 13:19. Dec 13, 2023 at 0:05
  • @AlexBalilo - Mark 13:19 certainly says that for sure, because as I say in my answer God Himself was undoubtedly the ARCHITECT after all. But, at least IMO, that doesn't necessarily preclude the Word, the pre-incarnate Jesus, as the possible CONTRACTOR. How else does one get around John 1:3, particularly if the second theos of John 1:1c, is to be presumed indefinite, which I believed you to be a proponent of. Dec 13, 2023 at 1:42
  • @Alex Balilo - You may not have ever seen my answer to the following question, Alex:- hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/47593/… - Although I say it myself, I think it's well worth your time to read, as it goes into much more detail regarding John 1:1. Dec 13, 2023 at 2:45
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There's an old addage that says, "You interprete the New Testament in view of the Old Testament because the New Testament is the fullfillmient of the Old Testament.

Having said that let's look at Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb. I, the LOrd, am the maker of ALL things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."

Since that is true, (and remeber God only has to speak once for it to be the truth). Let's go to Revelation 3:14. "The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this."

The Greek word for "beginning" is "arche", we get our English word "architect" from that word. So what's the definition of an architect? The Architect will plan and design, and/or facillitate the execution of something, i.e houses, buildings etc. In short, the architect serves as an "overseer."

To back this up we have Jesus Christ at John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:10 by His own Father, and here at Revelation 3:14. Since we already know what God stated at Isaiah 44:24, how is this to reconciled with Jesus Christ being identified as the architect as well?

God the Father at Hebrews 1:10 says the following about His only begotten Son, "Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Thy hands."

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The best way to answer the question is to break down the verse.

"These are the words of the Amen" (BSB)

2 Corinthians 1:19, 20 identifies "the Amen" as Jesus Christ:

19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you through us, that is, through me and Silvanus and Timothy, did not become “yes” and yet “no,” but “yes” has become “yes” in his case. 20 For no matter how many the promises of God are, they have become “yes” by means of him. Therefore, also through him is the “Amen” said to God, which brings him glory through us.

"the faithful and true Witness" (BSB)

Revelation 19:11, 13 identifies the one riding a white horse as "Faithful and True" then in verse 13 is called "The Word of God" which we know as Jesus Christ.

11 I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. . . . 13 and he is clothed with an outer garment stained with blood, and he is called by the name The Word of God. [bold mine]

"the Originator of God’s creation" (BSB)

Several translations render this phrase as "the Beginning of the creation of God". This corroborates Colossians 1:15

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

If he is created then he cannot be the Creator. The Creator of course is Jehovah God.

You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created. (Revelation 4:11)

I suspect that I will receive downvotes on this point of view even though I have shown scriptural proof.

[All scripture quotations from the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)]

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    @argaza. Just two versus before Jesus is telling the same people about His God."He who is overcoming—I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he may not go outside anymore, and I will write on him the Name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, that comes down out of Heaven from My God"Rev.3:12. God being Spirit and uncreated could never be known to His creation unless He had a true witness who was His image. Image is part of creation.
    – Sherrie
    Mar 31, 2023 at 18:52
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    Three times is the phrase, origin and Consummation found in Rev. God begins and ends with him. Rev.21:6/ Rev. 22:12 He is the whole alphabet of God's revelation, the first and the last. + 1
    – Sherrie
    Mar 31, 2023 at 18:52
  • You forget that he is called the creator of all things in the book of john Dec 12, 2023 at 7:39
  • See my comment to Alex on the question of who is really the CREATOR, not to mention my own answer. Dec 12, 2023 at 20:46
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The God referred to in Revelation 3:14 is the same God that Jesus ascribed creation to in Mark 13:19, Matthew 19:4 and Mark 10:6. The same God whom he says is greater than him and is the true God. The same God that the bible shows he (Jesus) worshipped and prayed to. Note that Jesus said have you not read...? That means that the scriptures that Jesus quoted from has no record of him (Jesus) as the Creator.

One answer says,

"Let there be no question that there is but One God, the Creator of all things and the NT presents Jesus as creator as per John 1:3, 10, Col 1:16, 17, Heb 1:2, 10." led me to assess, noting that one answer says "NT presents Jesus as creator".

If Jesus is really the Creator, there should be no reason why Jesus should not be presented as also the Creator in the Old Testament. I think that may have to account for Jesus' absence in the Old Testament. Think about it, the so called Creator Jesus was never mentioned in the Old Testament. There is no record in the bible that says Jesus is the Creator and the ones used are ambiguous and contradict what God, Jesus, the prophets and the apostles plainly taught and stated.

Others say that the word "arkhe" does not mean beginning and claim that it means source, ruler or origin.

Examining "arkhe", there is no verse where John used the word "arkhe" to mean ruler, source or originator. Thus, to say that arche mean ruler, originator or source is false. Those that use BDAG to justify originator are telling half-truths and are deceptive. Note the following from BDAG.

The BAGD, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature by Walter Bauer, William F. Arndt (Translator), F. Wilbur Gingrich, and Frederick W. Danker (Editor), has been revised as the BDAG. On page 138, the interpretation of Rev 3:14 that `ARXH [arche] of creation' means that Christ was created has been upgraded from poss. [possible] to prob. [probable].

"BDAG states that the meaning beginning = first created' for ARXH in Rev 3:14 is linguistically probable.' The sense origin' or source' hardly seems to fit the context of Rev 3:14. This meaning of the word does not seem to figure in biblical usages here or elsewhere. See Job 40:19." -

The greek word arkhe does mean source,originator or ruler.

Mark 13:19 YLT

for those days shall be tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the creation that God created, till now, and may not be

Mark 10:6 YLT

but from the beginning of the creation, a male and a female God did make them

Matthew 19:4 YLT

And he answering said to them, 'Did ye not read, that He who made them, from the beginning a male and a female made them,

Note too that the prophets and the apostles never taught that Jesus was the Creator/God as Acts 3:13 show. Consider, if Jesus was a man and is also the almighty God, did Jesus have 2 minds, God and human? Was his physical body corporeal and has weakness, the other almighty? Are there 2 minds in Christ were each had its own consciousness? will and perceptions?

Acts 3:13 ASV

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.

If Jesus is the Creator/God, and man at the same time, I cannot find a verse that plainly says Jesus has 2 different minds yet make up one person? There is no verse in the bible that plainly say he is the Creator. Others would cite John 1:1, but that would mean that there are two creators. It is claimed by some that God is one. yet equivocate the word one to include Jesus. But according to Jesus himself, he and the Father equals 2 witness, not 1 as John 8:17-18 show. Jesus pointed to the Father as the source of his Life. Thus, Jesus was created. John 6:57.

John 8:17-18 ASV

Yea and in your law it is written, that the witness of two men is true. I am he that beareth witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me

John 6:57 ASV

As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me.

It takes a lot of imagination to say that Jesus is the Creator/God and also the beginning of the creation of God. Such assertion is self contradictory.

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  • You said this: If Jesus is the Creator/God, and man at the same time, I cannot find a verse that plainly says Jesus has 2 different minds yet make up one person? There is no verse in the bible that plainly say he is the Creator. Perhaps your not looking hard enough. Philippians 2:6-8 explains that Jesus already existed as God and at vs7-8 He did not cling to the prerogatives of Deity by being found in the appearance as a man. And as a man He subjected Himself to His Father in every area of His life just like we are suppose to do. Creation wise read Colossians 1:16 and other verses
    – Mr. Bond
    Apr 3, 2023 at 14:13
  • @Mr.Bond. The verse you quoted does not say that he "did not cling", consider if Jesus is as you describe him, was he omniscient yet ignorant of some things, the Father of the universe and a baby in a manger at the same time? Really? Colossians 1:6 does not say that Jesus is the Creator. Apr 3, 2023 at 17:57
  • I thought before reading this, seeing as I thought we would be in lock step, that I would be giving you an upvote but I was surprised by your view on the CREATOR, which would seem to go against my own view. I was going to just comment/question but then realized that an actual answer from myself would be more appropriate. Consequently, I have now given that answer and am wondering what you truly think here. Dec 12, 2023 at 20:42
  • @OldeEnglish. I view the God of Jesus as the only true God and Creator. Dec 13, 2023 at 0:03
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Revelation 3:14

"And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation." [arche/beginning].

NAS Exhaustive Concordance gives 10 shades of meaning to [Greek]arche/beginning.

Here I will mention three of them to see how they may be used in different ways and thereby have the potential to cause confusion:

A. Matthew 24:8 "All of these are but the beginning of the birth pains". [arche/ beginning.] ESV. My emphasis.

The first or beginning birth pain is part of the series of subsequent birth pains.

B. Colossians 1:18 "He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent".

Here "arche/beginning" is first in seniority; chief; foremost. As such the beginning is part of the subsequent series.

C. Luke 12:11 "And when they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers".

Here "arche/rulers" are where rules come from. "Rulers" are not "rules". Rulers are the beginning of rules because they make up rules. They are not part of the series, i.e. what they make up.

In Rev 3:14 "the beginning" of God's creation is not part of what comes next. "the Amen" is where the subsequent series, that is creation, comes from. "beginning" or "Originator" as used here is illustrated in principle in example C.

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To answer the original question, who is the God mentioned in Rev 3:14, it is obvious that it is God the Father. In this verse, Jesus is the Amen, the faithful and true Witness and the Originator of the creation.

Now that does not mean that Jesus is not God! Jesus is the YHWH of the Old Testament.

It is also true that Jesus is the Firstfruit of the firstfruits from the dead (1 Cor 15:20,23).

But that does not mean that He is the first ever creature. The Unitarians claim that Jesus is the only direct creation by God the Father and all the other creation is then by Jesus. This is absolutely false.

The Bible is emphatic:

All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being” (John 1:3).

Here “came into being” means created. So if Jesus was created, then He also “came into being”. But then according to John 1:3, He has to be created through Himself! That is an absurd logic!!

God says,

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning” (Arche) and the Ending, says the Lord, the One who is, and who was, and who is coming, the Almighty” (Rev 1:8).

Again,

“And He said to me, It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning (arche) and the Ending” (Rev 21:6). [Verse 7 shows this is God speaking: “God to him, son to Me”).

I am sure nobody will claim that the Almighty God is the first created Being just because He is the “Beginning or Arche”!!!

Then how can anyone claim that in Rev 3:14, Jesus is the first created Being when He says He is the “Beginning or Arche”?!

Jesus claims the same things the Almighty claims:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning (Arche) and the Ending” (Rev 22:13). [Verse 12 shows this is Jesus speaking. It is Jesus who is “coming quickly” with rewards. Besides, verse 16 clearly states, “I, Jesus”]

It is beyond any doubt that if God, as “Beginning” or Arche, cannot be the first Creature, then definitely Jesus also, as “Beginning” or Arche, cannot be the first Creature!!!

Jesus is the YHWH of the Old Testament!

Yahweh claims,

“I YHWH am the first and the last; I am He” (Isaiah 41:4).

“Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel My called: I am He; I am the First; surely I am the Last” (Isaiah 48:12).

Yahweh also claims,

“And I will not give My glory to another” (Isaiah 48:11).

Yet, we see Jesus claiming for Himself the same glory!!!

“These things says the First and the Last, Who became dead, and lived” (Rev 2:8).

“Do not fear. I am the First and the Last, and the Living One; and I became dead; and, behold, I am living forever and ever. Amen” (Rev 1:17-18).

Peter Identifies Jesus as the Yahweh of OT

There are several examples where the Apostles identify Jesus as the Yahweh of the Old Testament. I will give a simple one here where Peter identifies Jesus as the Yahweh:

Psalms 34:8

“Taste and see that YHWH is good” [LSV].

In clear reference to this, Peter says in 1 Peter 2:3:

“if indeed you "tasted" "that the Lord (YHWH) is good;"”

The immediate next verse 4 shows clearly that the Lord (YHWH) here is Jesus, who is “a living Stone, indeed having been rejected by men, but chosen by God, precious”!!!!

Wonderful!

God the Father chose Yahweh/Jesus who but was rejected by men!!

Conclusion

It is Jesus, who as the Yahweh of the Old Testament, created all things that came into being, for God the Father.

God the Father has said this about His Monogenes Son:

“to the Son” (Heb 1:8)!! “"You, Lord (Yahweh God in OT), at the beginning founded the earth, and the heavens are works of Your hands. They will vanish away, but You will continue”” (Heb 1:10-11). [This is a direct quote from Psalms 102:25-27!!!]

Apostle John warns us,

“But if we don't believe what God has said about his Son, it is the same as calling God a liar” (1 John 5:10).

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