Jesus says His Father is greater than Him so does Jesus' death show that His love for those for whom He died was greater than His Father's?

Question

In John's account of the final night before crucifixion, Jesus uses the word μέγας, "greater" six times (13:16 twice, 14:12, 14:28, 15:13, and 15:20). Three of the sayings are given in a way in which the meaning of μέγας is made evident:

Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. (John 13:16 ESV)

You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)

Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. (John 15:20)

Here are the other two sayings:

“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. (John 14:12)

Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
(John 15:13)

My question is about the significance of greater love.

Not long after making these statements, Jesus did lay His life down for His friends. In fact, if the New Testament is believed, Jesus not only laid His life down for His friends, but for all people including those who condemned Him, those who tortured Him, even those who killed Him. It seems without question Jesus demonstrated the greater love of which He spoke.

Jesus says His Father is greater than Him so does Jesus' death show that His love for those for whom He died was greater than His Father's?

Answer 1

This appears to be a bit of a loaded question and more of a Trinitarian challenge to Unitarians based on the chat.

This far from helps the Trinitarian position and IMO and has been taken out of context/misapplied.

The passages quoted clearly affirm that God is greater than Jesus.

In no way can J15:13 imply that Jesus loved his friends more than God. He is simply/literally showing ‘supreme love, giving your life for someone’. Amazing, however, people have been known to give their life for someone they love, albeit not as a sacrifice (see below).

There is no evidence of any hidden message – that Jesus loves his friends more than God or it equates to Jesus being God or equal (as implied)

Jesus says:

• “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you”

• “If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also”

• “Blessed are the peacemakers”

• “Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy”

• “But love your enemies, and do good”

Then the Bible also says:

Rev 19:13 - his robe will be “dipped in blood”
Rev 19:15

From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

1 Corinthians 15:24, 25

²⁴ Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. ²⁵ For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet.

Matthew 10:34

Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Luke 19:27

But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence.

John 2:15

So He made a whip out of cords and drove all from the temple courts

Luke 14:26

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 12:51

Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division.

Luke 12:49

I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

human sacrifice

Matthew 9:13

But go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, not sacrifice For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Hosea 6:6

For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

Psalm 40:6

Sacrifice and offering you did not desire but my ears you have opened burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Deuteronomy 18:10

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,

2 Kings 21:6

He sacrificed his own son in the fire, practiced divination, sought omens, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, arousing his anger.

Also, see my answer at Is the lamb accepted for the redemption of sin?

Conclusion John 15:13 is being misapplied in an attempt to show God and Jesus are equal/one, but fails miserably.

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