Daniel 12:11-12 Do the 1,290 and 1,335 periods start at the same time?

Question

11And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be 1,290 days. 12Blessed is he who waits and arrives at the 1,335 days.

Reading the ESV, to me it appears the most logical reading is that they both have the same starting points.

Is there any reason, based only on the text, to believe the starting points are different?

Answer 1

It does not have a clear answer in the scripture. I just provide my own interpretation.

Daniel 9:27

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Daniel 12:2 & 12:7-12 (NIV)

2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”

8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, “My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?”

9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.

10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

My observations are;

• The 1290 days is pretty close to a time, times and half a time, that is three and a half years.
• The 1290 days mentioned in verse 11, that refer to the wicked, concur with the three and a half years that the holy people were suppressed (verse 7b), and corresponding to Daniel 9:27, the wicked suppressed the holy people in the second half of the last 'seven'.
• In verse 10, the purified people and wicked people are mentioned together, so they should be in parallel timeline. Therefore 1290 days and 1335 days should have the same starting point, in order to be meaningful.
• Verses 11 & 12 refer to the living wicked and holy people whereas verse 2 refer to the dead wicked and holy people. They were attending their final judgement (at the end of 1290 days?)

My current understanding

1290 days refers to the days the holy people must endured until the wicked been removed. 1335 days refers to the days the holy people must wait until receiving their blessing. In between, there is additional 45 days of waiting. What is the waiting about? Would it be "a new heaven and a new earth" as well as "the new Holy City"?

The angel told Daniel;

4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.” (Daniel 12:4 NIV)

I am exactly the one "go here and there to increase knowledge". It has an intention more on curiosity rather than faith. Although Jesus did understand our weakness of curiosity, as He had given a metaphor in His parable of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-33), which reminded us to have awareness of sign(s). However, though curiosity may not necessary be a curse, we should be alerted to avoid our curiosity prevail our faith to Jesus.

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Addendum

I did have thought whether the 1290 days refer to the days of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, or the End Times. Meanwhile I prefer the period of the End Times, based on the observation that

• In Daniel 12:2, it says "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake". The resurrection only happen in the End Times.
• In Daniel 12:4, the angel told Daniel to seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. The Dead of Antiochus was not the end. If it was the end, then what was the meaning of the ministry of Jesus that happened after?
• In Daniel 12:9, the angel repeated "the time of the end". By then there are two kinds of people, the wise and the wicked, and the wise will understand. If it ended by the dead of Antiochus, is our Christians be the wise?
• In Daniel 12:13, the angel told Daniel his rest (death), but assured Daniel that "at the end of the days" (3rd repeat) he will rise again to receive his allotted inheritance. It refers to the resurrection of Daniel, that happen only in the End Times.

Answer 2

The 1290 days and 1335 days are possible durations of the same interval, namely the second half of the 70th week of years, spanning from the time when the regular sacrifice is abolished to the time when a complete destruction is poured out on the desolator (Dan 9:27).

The reason why the second half of that week of years can comprise a priori any of those numbers of days is that the Book of Daniel assumes a particular calendar consisting of regular, leap, and extra-leap years, and you cannot know a priori whether a particular week of years comprises 1 leap, 2 leap, 1 extra-leap or (1 leap + 1 extra-leap) years.

Details in this answer: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/a/78457/15789

Answer 3

The question is difficult to answer because there isn't any precise starting and finishing points given, thus it's more like putting pieces of a puzzle together and hoping to find a picture that fits all the pieces. So my answer is more about how I put the pieces together.

First the text pertaining to the question:

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Note: The word "sacrifice" is added, it's not in the original text.

Now let's turn to Daniel 8.

Daniel 8:13

8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake, How long [shall be] the vision, the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Part of the above question is answered in Daniel 12:11 In the answer we notice again that the word "sacrifice" was added, it's not in the original. But the answer to the question as to "how long the daily" and the transgression would last, is given in Daniel 12:11 as 1290 days.

Whereas the time in Daniel 8:13 given as 2300 evening and mornings, answers the question, "How long the vision", which is also asked in Daniel 8:13. Since the removal of the daily and setting up of the transgression is first mentioned in the Daniel eight vision, the answer of 1290 and 1335 days as to "how long" given in Daniel 12:11 would then occur within the whole 2300 evening and morning vision.

How long the vision? 2300 evening and mornings (8:13)

How long the removal of the daily and setting up the transgression? 1290 days (12:11)

Now the whole vision is long. It includes a ram, which is identified as Media Persia in verse 8:20 and the goat, identified as Grecia in verse 8:21, and then moves on to four horns, followed by another horn that grows exceedingly great.

How long is that vision? Some say 1150 mornings and 1150 evenings. That's too short to cover the whole vision, also 2300 days seems far too short. Only when we apply the day for a year principle will it fit. 2300 years will cover the whole vision.

Daniel, who is worried about things back home in Jerusalem does not understand the vision, it seemed far too long and it troubles him so much he is sick for days. See verse 8:27.

So in the next chapter an angel is sent to Daniel to explain the role Jerusalem would play in that long time line. Yes, the city would be rebuilt and 70 weeks of sevens (490 years) of the 2300 years would be given to them. The Messiah would appear after the 69th week, He would be "cut off" (crucified) in the midst of the final week, and would cause the sacrifices and oblations to cease. That's why the word "sacrifice" wasn't included in Daniel 8:13, or 12:11.
The book of Hebrews tells us Christ is the all sufficient sacrifice, and after Christ's death and resurrection, He then enters the heavenly sanctuary and is our High Priest. No more need for animal sacrifices.

But that doesn't answer the question as to the beginning of the 1290 and 1335 time lines.

When does the assault on the daily (Christ's work as our high Priest in the heavenly sanctuary) and the setting up of the transgression begin? Do they begin together?
I think they do, and that they apply to the horn that becomes exceedingly great. One simply adds a bit of waiting time.

Daniel 8:11 And it waxed great, [even] to the host of heaven...he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily [] was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down

This horn is reaching up into heavenly realms. Notice, the place of the sanctuary was cast down, not the actual sanctuary. The attempt to bring Christ's ministry back to earth, into their own hands.

In both Daniel 11:31 and Daniel 8:12 we read that this power receives an army by which he removes the TRUE daily and sets it aside, rejects it, and sets up the abomination.

There's another clue as to when these 1290 and 1335 years began:

Daniel 8:12 An army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily. (NKJV)

Daniel 11:31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall take away the daily and place the abomination.

Many historicist place the beginning of the 1290 and 1335 years with the conversion of Cloves, king of the Franks around 508 A.D. His conversion to Roman Papal Christianity marked an important change point in history.

Just a few quotes to verify the importance of this event:

The conversion of Clovis to the religion of the majority of his subjects soon brought about the union of the Gallo-Romans with their barbarian conquerors...in the Frankish kingdom... the fundamental identity of religious beliefs and equality of political rights made national and patriotic sentiments universal and produced the most perfect harmony between the two races. The Frankish Kingdom was thenceforth the representative and defender of Catholic interests throughout the West, (Catholic Encyclopedia online at Catholic.org)

"With the conversion of Clovis, there was at least one barbarian leader with whom the Bishop of Rome could negotiate as with a faithful son of the Church. It is from the orthodox Gregory of Tours that most of our knowledge of Clovis and his successors is derived. In Gregory's famous History of the Franks, the cruel and unscrupulous king appears as God's chosen instrument for the extension of the Catholic faith. Certainly Clovis quickly learned to combine his own interests with those of the Church, and the alliance between the pope and the Frankish kings was destined to have a great influence upon the history of western Europe." (James Harvey Robinson, History of Western Europe, pp. 35, 36.)

With Clovis began the Merovingian dynasty which through the years was the military strong arm for Catholicism. The following was from Bonifacius and shows what help the Franks were to the Catholic Church:

"Without the patronage of the Frankish ruler, I can neither govern the people nor defend the presbyters, deacons, monks or handmaidens of God; nor even could I forbid the pagan rites and sacrilegious idolatries in Germany without his mandate and the fear of his name." (Epist. 12 ad Danielem episc.)

The Franks were the first among the Teutonic tribes to embrace Catholicism, and pressured the other Germanic nations under her brand of Christianity.

Once converted to Roman Christianity, the Germans became the staunch supporters of the papal hierarchy and enabled the Pope to enforce his prerogatives in the West. Backed by these sturdy Teutons, the Pope became the most powerful individual in Christendom." (Alexander Flick in "The Rise of the Medieval Church" p. 180)

That is the historicist method of interpretation. A method that covers time from the prophets day to the end. Futurist and Preterists interpret it differently.

Answer 4

The textual use of the word wait (12:12) points to a same starting point. That is, come this far, and then wait a little longer for the completion. And the mention of a "point from" to "a point ending" adds weight to this idea.(12:11) Several starting points were not mentioned, just one.

But the best way to see if this is what the scriptures are intending to convey is to see if there is any confirmation in real time history. And in this case, there is! The horrible events of Daniel, chapter 12, were played out on the Judaean stage in the first century, at the exact time span given by the angel.

The eye-witness historian, Flavius Josephus, showed the starting date of the conquest of the land of Israel as beginning with the marching of General Cestius's legion (See The Jewish Wars by Josephus) and lasting through to the annihilation of the capital of Jerusalem, which was three and a half years or 1,290 days.

However, one stronghold in the lower city, a palace/fortress of King Herod, refused to surrender, and it held out for exactly 45 days more, bringing the war to the 1,335 days prophesied in Daniel!

The wording of the angel in Daniel, taken at face value, supports only one starting point, and the providential fulfilment of the time frame has been historically recorded for posterity.

Answer 5

The 490-day, 1260-day, 1290-day, 1335-day, and 2300-day prophecies each represent those time periods in years, following the day-for-year prophetic principle specified in both Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6.

Prophetic Day-for-Year

After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise. (Numbers 14:34, KJV)

And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year. (Ezekiel 4:6, KJV)

The 2300-Day and 490-Day Prophecies

The 2300-day prophecy of Daniel 8:14 began in 457 BC with the commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, recorded in Ezra 7. The first 490 years of that prophecy were specified separately as marking the time until the Messiah would come and be crucified. This 490-day portion of the prophecy is outlined in Daniel 9.

And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (Daniel 8:14, KJV)

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (Daniel 9:24, KJV)

So the 490-day and 2300-day prophecies start simultaneously--the 490 (seventy weeks) is just the first part of the 2300.

The 1260-Day Prophecy

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. (Daniel 12:7, KJV)

One "time" is a year, as can easily be deduced by comparing the parallel passage in Revelation which prophesies this same time period, beginning in chapter 11 and proceeding through chapter 13. Consider especially Revelation 12:6 which specifies "a thousand two hundred and threescore days" followed by verse 14 which mentions the "time, and times, and half a time" and Revelation 13:5 which speaks of this as "forty and two months." Each month, Biblically, has 30 days, so 42 months amounts to 1260 days, i.e. three and a half years.

The 1335-Day and 1290-Day Prophecies

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. ¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. (Daniel 12:11-12, KJV)

(NOTE: The translation of the verb "set up" in verse 11 is imprecise. The Hebrew Qal infinitive here can mean something that is continuing or ongoing, something still in progress.)

Both the 1335-day prophecy and the 1290-day prophecy began in AD 508 when Clovis defeated the Visigoths and launched his campaign to establish the papacy. For a period of thirty years, the setting up of the "abomination that maketh desolate" (Daniel 12:11) continued, until AD 538 when the papacy officially assumed its civil power, at which time the 1260-year period commenced.

Prophetic Endpoints

In AD 1798, the 1260-year and 1290-year prophecies ended with the capture and subsequent death in captivity of the pope in Rome who was taken by General Berthier of Napoleon's army. This ended the 1260-year political reign of the papacy which had officially assumed civil power in AD 538 (popes existed well before this, but had only had religious authority).

But the 1335-day prophecy continued to AD 1843. It was in this year that, due to the teachings of William Miller in America, whose message had spread to Europe and beyond, being published in the newspapers of the time, a movement of people expected their Lord to return. These people, though destined to suffer a great disappointment, were truly blessed in that year with making heart preparations for Jesus' coming. They truly believed the prophecy was to end with Jesus' return--but, though correctly calculating the time, they had mistaken the event. The "sanctuary shall be cleansed" did not refer to the earth, as they supposed, but to the sanctuary in heaven which had been stained with the record of sin throughout earth's history. It was into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary that Jesus was to go, officially beginning his ministry of cleansing. Because of their faith, they had put away every sin, confessed their faults to one another and forgiven each other, and had prepared in every way possible to meet their Master. Their characters and lives testified that they had been in communion with Jesus; in this they were truly blessed, even as the prophecy indicated.

The 2300-day prophecy, however, extended to 1844, one year beyond 1843. Why the year of difference? Because the early calculations of those expecting Jesus' return in 1843 were found to be mistaken on account of having neglected that there was no zero year between BC and AD dates. For one year, from 1843 to 1844, they enjoyed peace with God and were joyful in the expectation of Jesus' return, recalculated to be October 22, 1844--the day on which the Jewish day of atonement was to fall in that year. The prophecy in Revelation 10 about eating the "little book" and its taste being very sweet in the mouth, but becoming bitter in the belly, applied to this group of people--but they were not to see this until afterward. The prophesied disappointment must come.

After 1844, no further times were marked out in prophecy. Indeed, Revelation 9:5-6 indicates that prophetic times would be ended. From 1844 to the coming of Christ there is to be no further prophecy giving us a definite time for end-time events. For example, no one will know when probation has closed, when the seven last plagues will come, or the date of Jesus' return. The 2300-day prophecy, which spanned the 490-, 1335-, 1290-, and 1260-day/year prophecies, was the longest and last of these.

So, in chronological order, we can list these prophecies as follows:

Year	Commencement	Fulfillment	Associated Event(s)
457 BC	2300-day prophecy 490-day prophecy		Commandment to restore/rebuild Jerusalem
AD 34		490-day prophecy	Stoning of Stephen, marking the end of Jewish probation--gospel goes out to Gentiles
AD 508	1335-day prophecy 1290-day prophecy		Clovis, King of Franks, destroys Visigoth opposition, embarks on establishment of papacy
AD 538	1260-day prophecy		Papacy officially established
AD 1798		1260-day prophecy 1290-day prophecy	Papacy receives "deadly wound" (see Revelation 13:3); Pope taken captive and removed from Rome by Berthier, one of Napoleon's generals--pope soon afterward dies in captivity
AD 1843		1335-day prophecy	The time of the blessed (Daniel 12:12) who expect Christ's imminent coming
AD 1844		2300-day prophecy	Jesus enters Most Holy Place in heavenly sanctuary to begin his work of atonement as our High Priest; beginning of earth's final "Day of Atonement"

These can also be represented in timeline chart format as shown below.

Conclusion

Yes, the 1290- and 1335-day prophecies start at the same time.

Answer 6

Daniel 12:11-12 Do the 1,290 and 1,335 periods start at the same time? Yes. 1260-day=42 months, 1290-day = 43 months , 1335-day = 44,5 months, this means that 42 months is one time, 43 months is times and 44,5 months is half a time.