John 4:35 Jesus states "there are four months until the Harvest." ... "look upon the fields, they are already white and ready for harvest!" What I understood him to mean was that the gentile Samaritans said in v42 "We know truly that this is the Messiah the redeemer of the world." If so, could this possibly mean a Barley Harvest (Jesus being the Barley Harvest First Fruits) of sinless, believing Jews and gentiles on a future Yom Teruah? [end of May to the beginning of September "on a day and hour that know man knows"]
If "no man knows" it, how is it that you seem to know it ?– Nigel JJan 7, 2022 at 21:07
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1@Nigel he stated that before it happened. We now live after it happened. The siege of the city of Jerusalem by the Roman army began on 14 April 70 CE, three days before the beginning of Passover that year. Most Jews had descended on the city for the festival as was the custom and were trapped inside. The Siege ended and the city fell in August 70 CE on "Tisha B'Av" (same date Solomon's temple fell) with the burning and destruction of the Second Temple. Time span was indeed almost exactly 4 months but did not align with feast of trumpets. The majority of Jews alive were killed. Luke 19:41-44– MarshallJan 8, 2022 at 2:45
Note: Dake’s Annotated Reference Bible, KJV, p 330, q This is one of Paul’s revelations – All will not die physically, but some will be changed to the likeness of those who do die 1Cor. 15:51. The time needed for this is but a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. The Gr. says en atom, in an atom of time. It will happen at the last two trumpets which will sound at this time. At the first trumpet the dead will be raised to immortality. At the second or last trumpet the living will be changed to immortality and be caught up with the dead to meet the Lord in the air. (v52; 1Th. 4:16, 17)– hankFeb 18, 2022 at 16:20
Yes, Jesus did more than hint. He used the phrase the Jews associated with the Feast of Trumpets, " But of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matt. 24:36). When they heard those words the disciples would immediately have made the association with the Feast of Trumpets.
Excerpt from my post "The Signs of the Feasts - Part II: Jesus Told His Disciples When..." :
"Because the first day of the month had to be validated by the two (or three) witnesses, it affected the time for attending the holy convocation for the Day of Trumpets. The Hebrews could not know exactly on which day it would be held as they were waiting for the appearance of the new moon.
A tradition grew and a saying in Israel became popular as “no one knows the day or the hour.” (1) (2) (3)
In the chapter discussing the destruction of the temple, Christ deliberately used the Hebraic idiom for the Day of Trumpets. He told his disciples the day the temple would be completely destroyed – Yom Teruah!"
That day occurred 40 years after the crucifixion in AD 70. And the disciples knew the time of year to expect it. They may not have figured out exactly which year, but they knew it was about to happen. Jesus told them repeatedly that the kingdom was at hand.
Paul said it was near.
"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed." The night is far spent, the day is at hand:... (Rom. 13:11 -12, KJV)
"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand." (2 Thess. 2:2, KJV)
"Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand." (Phill. 4:5, KJV)
Peter knew it.
"But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer." (1 Pet. 4:7, KJV)
John knew it.
"...for the time is at hand." (Rev. 1:3; 22:10 KJV)
They knew the time of His "second" coming, and that it would be in their generation (Matt. 24:34). They also knew it would be on the feast days as Jesus told the scribes and Pharisees they would not see Him again until they said,
"For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." (Matt. 23:39, KJV)
Which was another Hebraic idiom associated with the pilgrim feast days, especially that of Passover on 14 Nissan. And, as the Romans laid seige to the city of Jerusalem as soon as the gates were closed on 14 Nissan AD 70, then coming of Lord in judgment against that city had begun.
See all three of my posts on the Signs of The Feasts where Jesus told them when to expect Him Part I, Part II, and Part III at my blog ShreddingTheVeil.org.
But how does the day of trumpets relate to the siege of Jerusalem ? The siege of the city of Jerusalem by the Roman army began on 14 April 70 CE, three days before the beginning of Passover that year. Most Jews had descended on the city for the festival as was the custom and were trapped inside. Most Jews were killed and the Siege ended and the city fell in August 70 CE on "Tisha B'Av" (same date Solomon's temple fell) with the burning and destruction of the Second Temple. Time span was indeed almost exactly 4 months but as far as I can see did not align with feast of trumpets. Luke 19:41-44– MarshallJan 8, 2022 at 2:50
The Pharisees were told the time of their judgment - Passover. The disciples were told when the temple would be destroyed. That was the subject of Matt. 24. The Feast of Trumpets was a memorial feast recalling God's victory at Jericho. It was at the end of the siege, not the beginning. The disciples asked when the temple would be torn down. Jesus told them. Josephus records the temple burning on the 10th of Av same as the first by Babylon. But Jesus had said not one stone would b left upon another, and the Romans began tearing down the temple walls and stones about the 8th of Elul.... Jan 8, 2022 at 7:58
Cont'd.. To complete the prophesy - the walls coming down - Jericho walls coming down - took time. The Romans were finished burning the city, and tearing down all but the west wall & the 3 strongest towers by the end of Elul, just before the 1st of Tishri. Jan 8, 2022 at 8:04
Interesting. Did you have any links to historical documents on the temple walls coming down ? I'd read quite a bit on the Roman siege of Jerusalem - mostly from Flavius Josephus. Most of it culminates around the Tisha B'Av date when the Romans broke throught he walls and set fire to the temple and took control of the city. I hadn't actually read much detail around what followed– MarshallJan 9, 2022 at 11:52
1Yes, Josephus gives dates in Book of Wars Bok 6, Chap 4 - 8. esp. chap 5. para. 5. gutenberg.org/files/2850/2850-h/2850-h.htm#link62HCH0006 And a chronology from Josephus' Book of Wars is here : josephus.org/FlJosephus2/warChronology7Fall.html Jan 9, 2022 at 14:42
There are several things against suggesting that John 4:35 suggests a day for Jesus' return:
- Jesus used a common saying to illustrate a point - that point was that the harvest of souls for the kingdom of God was already ripe! Note what is recorded in Luke 4:35 -
Do you not say, ‘There are still four months until the harvest’? I tell you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are ripe for harvest.
Thus, Jesus was not alluding to His return but the arrival of the time to harvest people for the kingdom of God.
- The saying quoted by Jesus in Luke 4:35 is typical of Jesus' mode of teaching spiritual truths - He took common sayings and extrapolated them to the spiritual realm. Here is another example in Matt 16:1-4 -
Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came and tested Jesus by asking Him to show them a sign from heaven. But He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘The weather will be fair, for the sky is red,’ and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but not the signs of the times.a A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Then He left them and went away.
In this example, Jesus cannot be accused of suggesting that He would return when the weather was either calm of stormy!
As if to confirm this, Jesus actually said this about His second coming in Matt 24:36 -
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
And again in Matt 24:42 -
Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come.
1"Tell us, when shall these things be...?" The disciples asked "when". Jesus answered them. The phrase 'no one knows...' was the tell & the disciples knew it. As the harvest was already ripe while Jesus walked among them, then why do so many believe He has waited almost 2,000 years or more to reap it? Jan 8, 2022 at 14:45
@Gina - on the contrary, the harvest was reaped over the next two days - Jesus converted most of the town, John 4:39-43.– DottardJan 8, 2022 at 20:23
Dottard - I agree with the Samaritan "in Christ" Holy Spirit conversion, but the spirit to physical body resurrection won't happen until the Lord comes (in the air) 1 Thess. 4:15-17; 1 Thess. 3:13b.– hankFeb 5, 2022 at 12:01
Good question Gina. As to the wait time - I have no idea. However to your use of "reap" I do have a comment. When I read 1Th 4:15-17 the dead and alive believers are "caught up" (726 Interlinear) not reaped. And I suggest the "great multitude" "standing before the throne and before the Lamb" Rev 7:9 are those "...blameless..before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints." 1TH 3:13 Reaping is done by angels Mt 13:39 sent by the Son of Man Mt 13:41 to "separate the wicked from the just." Mt 13:49 However, after 30 days (1290) of reaping Daniel 12:11, He will then send His angels to "gather (sunago, 4863) the wheat (sitos, 4621) into my barn (apotheke, 596)" Matt 3:12, Matt 13:30b for 45 days (1335) Daniel 12:12. Ref: NKJV, Interlinear, The Complete WordStudy Dictionary, ISBN 0-89957-663-X"
Welcome to Bible Hermeneutics SE and thank you for your contribution. When you get a chance, please take the tour to understand how the site works and how it is different than others.– agarzaJan 8, 2022 at 16:16
Gina - Regarding Note 3: I agree with Eddie. "Thus, we can more clearly see the analogy Jesus made with His words: "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" was in regards to this important festival of Rosh HaShanah."– hankJan 21, 2022 at 17:51