Revelation 17:11 (NASB ) says: As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth ...
Then:
Can anyone shed some light on whether the 8th is "of ONE of the seven"? Or "of the SEVENTH"? Or "of ALL 7"?
It looks to me like the translation which reads "of the seven" is the correct one.
Here is the Greek phrase:
...καὶ ἐκ τῶν ἑπτά ἐστιν...
...and out of the seven [he/it] is...
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17-11.htm
Note, the cardinal number seven (7), that is, ἑπτά.
In Revelation 17:11, it is not given as an ordinal, that is seventh (7th).
Compare now to other uses of the ordinal:
Revelation 8:1,
Revelation 10:7,
Revelation 11:15,
Revelation 16:17,
Revelation 21:20,
These all are instances, from the same book, of the ordinal seventh (7th), where the use is unmistakable. However, no such use in Revelation 17:11 is present. It is merely the cardinal number seven (7).
See: https://biblehub.com/greek/1442.htm
Then, looking at the surrounding verbiage, you see the Greek preposition ἐκ, which means out of, or from:
https://biblehub.com/greek/1537.htm
Next, you have the article τῶν, which is in the genitive case, signaling possession, source, or point of origin. The eighth is both out of or from, and finds its point of origin and source in, the seven.
All of this combined make it pretty clear that "of the seven" is the right one.
The prophesy was contemporary with the 6th ruler who was ruling the 4th beast kingdom at the time John wrote the book of Revelation (13:18).
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." (KJV)
Present tense verb "is". The 6th ruler was in the time frame of the writing of the book.
Need to know the Year of Four Emperors, where Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and Vespasian were all Caesars of the ancient Roman empire within the space of one year after Nero's death.
Excerpt from my post "Frequent Mistakes - Part I: The Wounded Head" (1)
The beast of the sea in Revelation was a pagan nation, as the sea symbolized the nations that surrounded the land of Israel (Isa. 17:12; 23:11). Many times in prophetic language, Israel was the “earth” or “land” of God’s people. Therefore, water / sea surrounding land was a metaphor for the pagan nations surrounding Israel, and were many times the “floods” that God brought against them. (See. Deu. 13:7; 28:23; Lev. 26:19; Isa. 5:30; 59:19; Jer. 46:8; and the previous post “Heaven And Earth Have Passed Away.”)
The pagan sea beast had seven heads / kings and ten horns (lesser governors / rulers) (Rev. 13:1; 17:3). Five of these seven kings had already fallen and “one is” (Rev. 17:10). “One is” indicated the present ruler at the time the prophesy was spoken.
The sixth king / head was ruling over the beast nation at the time Revelation was written. That means that the beast nation existed during the lifetime of John, during the first century A.D. The head of the beast that was going to receive the mortal wound (Rev. 13:3) was only indirectly the beast nation. The direct attack was against one of the heads, and the one that was mortally wounded unto death. This mortal wound almost caused the death of the beast, but the beast was healed.
Rev. 17:8, The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit,…” (KJV)
The ruling king / head that received the mortal wound died, but the beast / nation did not die. The deadly wound delivered to the nation at the death of the king was healed by a successor king. As heads of the beast nation, each king took on a beast role.
Rev. 17:11, “ And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.” (KJV)
Nero “was and is not”, meaning he had died. He was the last of the Julian line of Caesars. But, he is shown again in the eighth king / ruler. The eighth king / Caesar of Rome was Otho. (Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, Galba, Otho, Vitellius, and then Vespasian)
Tacitus wrote, “Moreover, on certain days the people and soldiers, as if adding thereby to Otho’s nobility and distinction, acclaimed him as Nero Otho.” (Histories 1.78; cf. 1.13 and 1.25). Note:19 ” On the portrayal of Otho in Tacitus, Plutarch and Suetonius, see Perkins 1993 and Braun 1992.” (1)
The Year of Four Emperors
Galba ruled for just 6 months (Rev. 17:10, “… and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.”). (2) Otho murdered Galba, and was proclaimed emperor by the army. He then ruled for three months, from Jan to April AD 69. He had been a friend to Nero, but had joined with Galba to overthrow Nero. (3), (4), (5) That Otho was “of the seven” possibly refers to his conspiracy with Galba to overthrow Nero.
Vitellius’ army defeated that of Otho in April of AD 69. He ruled Rome for approx. 7 months until Dec AD 69. He had also been a companion to Nero, and signaled the type of rule he would follow by making funerary offerings to Nero and calling for Nero’s songs. (6). He was a very cruel and gluttonous man, and soon lost support of the armies. His army was defeated by Vespasian’s, and the senate confirmed Vespasian as emperor on Dec. 21, AD 69. (7), (8)
Possibly in an effort to legitimize their rule in the eyes of the people by calling on the Julian line, Otho and Vitellius essentially resurrected Nero in both their accolades of him and their similar behavior.
The point was that the death of the sixth king (Nero) almost caused the beast nation to die, and its death struggle was a wonder to all those who witnessed the civil wars that ensued.
That beast nation was Rome. Nero died in June AD 68, committing suicide with the help of his servant, and the Roman empire was thrown into a year of civil war under the rule of four successive “heads”: Galba, Otho, and Vitellius, followed by Vespasian.
Thus, it became the Year of Four Emperors. (9) The civil wars of the first three Caesars brought Rome into near ruin, and as a result, Vespasian broke off the war in Judea, leaving his son Titus in charge, gathered his army and marched to Rome. He knew that if the capital city of Rome fell, then so would the empire.
Vespasian and his army took control of the empire in AD 69 and restored order to Rome. Thus, the Roman beast empire received a mortal wound, nearly dying at the death of Nero, but was healed and revived under Vespasian.
The prophesy never said that the head / king that was mortally wounded would revive. Nero, one head of the empire, was not the entire beastly empire. But, two of his successors, Otho and Vitellius both honored and ruled in Nero’s memory, in essence making a reappearance of Nero and “ascending out of the bottomless pit” (Rev. 17:8)
Original post here: ShreddingTheVeil
Sources referenced are at the original post and include:
Otho: Britanica
Vitellius: Chicagoedu
The Year of Four Emperors: here
Most here are assuming that the 7th and 8th kingdoms, in addition to the 6th, are the Roman Empire. Joel Richardson in Middle East Beast makes a good argument, I think, that the final Antichrist Empire will be a revived Islamic empire and not a revived Roman empire. It would seem pretty strange if the Bible missed the largest empire of all to encompass the area where Babylon was, the Islamic empire. Revelation 17:11 also would seem to rule out the Roman Empire as the final Empire. The Beast seems to be a composite of several empires that included the Babylonian area, except for Rome. Maybe the same demonic force behind all of them, except Rome, is the Beast under consideration?
It is a cultural reference to a once wide spread belief in Nero Redivivus:
a belief popular during the last part of the 1st century that the Roman emperor Nero would return after his death in 68 AD. The legend was a common belief as late as the 5th century.
The earliest written version of this legend is found in the Sibylline Oracles. It claims that Nero did not really die but fled to Parthia, where he would amass a large army and would return to Rome to destroy it.
Dio Chrysostom, a Greek philosopher and historian, wrote:
seeing that even now everybody wishes [Nero] were still alive. And the great majority do believe that he still is, although in a certain sense he has died not once but often along with those who had been firmly convinced that he was still alive.
Augustine of Hippo wrote that some believed
he now lives in concealment in the vigor of that same age which he had reached when he was believed to have perished, and will live until he is revealed in his own time and restored to his kingdom.
In later forms of the legend, among many early Christians, this legend shifted to a belief that Nero was the Antichrist.
Some Bible scholars see the description of the wounding and healing of the Beast in Revelation 13:3 and the mention of the eighth king who is also one of the earlier seven kings in Revelation 17:8-11 as allusions to the Nero Redivivus legend.
