Are the 6th and 7th seals, and the trumpet and bowl judgements in Revelation different events or do they describe the same event from multiple angles?

Question

Question expansion

Seals 1 - 5 are fairly self-explanatory and seem to echo the words of Jesus, e.g.:

Matthew 24:6-8 (Seals 1 - 4)
You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Matthew 24:9 (Seal 5)
Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

Then Seals 6 and 7 seem to tie in to Trumpets 1 - 7, thematically (Seal 6) and structurally (Seal 7).

Is there any textual evidence in Revelation, or a hermeneutic principle related to apocalyptic literature, to support or preclude the idea that the trumpet judgements and bowl judgements are one-and-the same event, or two events (as opposed to 13/14)?

Observational research

I have noticed that:

• The 6th seal is a synopsis of Trumpets 1 - 6:

Revelation 6:12-14
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

• The 7th seal is the ceremonial giving of the 7 trumpets; nothing specific actually 'happens' when Seal 7 is opened, except a portent of judgement:

Revelation 8:1-5
When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them. Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all God’s people, on the golden altar in front of the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of God’s people, went up before God from the angel’s hand. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and hurled it on the earth; and there came peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning and an earthquake.

• The bowl judgements are described as a new vision:

Revelation 15:1a
I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign:... (emphasis mine)

Answer 1

Seal-Trumpet-Bowl Judgments

As implied by the heading, these judgments are progressive:

The Seals are the unveiling of the judgements, the trumpets are the announcements, and the bowls are the final pouring out or "emptying" of the judgments.

They vary in intensity: in the 4th Seal Judgment it says,

“And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.”(Rev. 6:8 KJV)

We see the Judgment affecting 1/4 of the earth.

In Rev. 8:12, we read,

“And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.”

Now we see the intensity is increased from 1/4 to 1/3, in the previous 3 trumpets, 1/3 of the items announced were affected.

The Bowl Judgments, which are the final outpouring of the Wrath of God, are the most severe, in Rev. 16:3, it says,

“And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.”

At this point, no one escapes the judgments of God; they affect everyone in every locality.

There are 2 considerations: the first one is that when the judgment is released, there is no turning back. No where does it say, 'And the judgment was removed....', which means, when the seal is broken, it is broken unto this present day, when the trumpet is sounded, it is sounded unto this present day. And when the bowl is poured out, that's the final pouring out. The second consideration is ....for what reason?

The reason which judgments are unveiled, announced and poured out is for REPENTANCE! In Rev. 9:20 it says,

“And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:”

God could destroy all of creation in less than a nanosecond; He gives progressively severe judgments so that men would repent. As a whole they don't, but many do, and in Rev. 7:14, when John asks who are those walking in white robes, the angel replies,

“And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

They saw the judgments, and heeded the call to repentance, having "washed their robes"; therefore they are no longer under judgment, but dwell in the Presence of God.

Are the 6th and 7th Seals Different Events?

Yes, the 6th Seal unveils a "Time of Great Darkness" which portents great catasphrophe for men; consequently the images of "the sky rolling up like a scroll", and "every mountain and island removed from it's place" is used.

Since: 1) Judgments are for repentance, and 2) Judgements increase with severity, must concluded that the language used is Figurative, or describing another reality. The prevailing thought that "it must all happen at the End of the Age" falls apart when you consider that 1) Many of these judgments have already been recorded, and 2) If only the people at the very end of the age are called to repentance, what happened to those before the end? The answer to the dilemma is "John was taken up to Heaven", meaning he saw things from a heavenly perspective, not an earthly one. We must see Literal things literally, and Figurative things figuratively.

The Hermeneutic which best outlines this is the Historicist Interpretation, because rather than absurdly bunching all the fullfilments at the beginning of the Church Age(Preterism), or waiting until the very end to absurdly bunch all fulfillment at the very end of the age(Futurism/Dispensationalism) , it best answers the question,"These things which must shortly come to pass" in Rev. 1:1. The scrolls were opened right after Christ was determined to have the authority to open them, and yet their final fulfillment ushers in His Return, which has not happened yet.

Given this understanding, there was a time of delineation between the scrolls and the trumpets; the 6th Seal announced the judgment preceding this time, and then....silence for a 1/2 hour. There is no measurement for time in Heaven, it is the fulfillment of God which determines what happens. He is the Alpha and Omega, He knows the end from the beginning. So the "time" is earth time, measured on Heaven's clock. The "half hour" signifies a brief interlude where earth is given a chance to examine itself, or Heaven rachets up the severity of the judgments.

The 18th Century was the equivelent of a seismic event; the American and French Revolutions spelled the end for monarchies and the "Divine Right of Kings". But preceding this time was "The Great Awakening", an unprecidented time of devotion and fervor experienced in Europe and America. Heaven was waiting for an answer from earth; would it follow the arrogance and depravity of the French Revolution, or a "Government of the People" dictated by the sovereignity of God.

Answer 2

This will not answer the question but it may provide some guidance.

Notice that there are some significant similarities between the 7 trumpets and 7 bowl-plagues: the object of each is the same order and the reverse of creation in gen 1 as though these are, in some sense, the undoing of creation.

1. Earth
2. Sea
3. Springs of water
4. Sun moon and stars
5. darkness (no light)
6. Waters (Euphrates)
7. Voices in heaven

However, there are important differences between the 7 trumpets and 7 bowl-plagues - the trumpets tend to be associated with one third of the earth, while the bowl-plagues are associated with the whole earth.

Therefore, I believe they are distinct.

Answer 3

Your main question about the 6th & 7th seals will only garner lots of different answers based on opinions about interpretation. Yet your last question was the one that should have been put first! You may find the book of the Revelation opening up only after your question has been sorted:

"Is there any textual evidence in Revelation, or a hermeneutic principle related to apocalyptic literature, to support or preclude the idea that the trumpet judgements and bowl judgements are one-and-the same event, or two events?"

Once you see the way the book was written - overall - then you may understand both similarities and differences with the seals. The book is seen to have seven sections which all commence at Christ's Advent, and each one ends with 'the last day' - of judgment. However, the ground covered in each parallel section has differences. Each section gives further information, establishes further principles, and elevates the reader's view of the events described. It's like starting to climb a mountain from the base, following a winding path. That takes you far up, but there's another path, along the side of the mountain, parallel, but taking a different direction. You start at the beginning of it, and it shows you a different part of the mountain; as you get high, you see around and below you differently. Then there's a third path, parallel to that one. Again, it starts at the bottom and takes you high, where you see more aspects of the mountain. And so on, until the seventh section, by which time you have broken through obscuring clouds to reach the summit - heaven's viewpoint of all that is in heaven and on earth. That vantage point is unique. All becomes clear as all the insights have joined together. Your view, your understanding, has increased with each successive section. But it was necessary to start at the first section, then the others, in order. That is, basically, how the author of the book below puts it.

Here, however, is a word of warning for would-be investigators of the book of the Revelation: Some think that by amassing knowledge, they shall be part of (and some hope to be a very self-important part of) the kingdom of heaven. Such 'investigators' are doomed to failure. God gives the revelation, and the understanding of it. To those seeking knowledge, treating the Revelation like a head-trip, an intellectual puzzle that is to be solved, it will remain a closed book. It is all about repentance, beginning with the Church. Then the nations are judged. They stubbornly refuse to heed the everlasting gospel proclaimed by the angel, refusing to repent. Therefore the plagues and judgments upon them increase, yet they still cannot see it!

The book below takes 618 pages to expound all of this, including the meaning of the sixth and seventh seals being opened. Anyone seriously wanting to learn what God is teaching his people in the book of the Revelation would do well to get it, for careful, prayerful study. (The Revelation of Jesus Christ, John Metcalfe)

Therefore, my answer is that the entire text needs to be examined systematically (not just bits about the 6th and 7th seals), based on hermeneutic principles about apocalyptic literature - primarily that literal interpretations must be avoided. There can be no mixing of literal and symbolic interpretations, for that only produces a view where bits are shoe-horned in. Nor should the idea of a chronological order to the chapters be even considered, for the seven sections go back and cover the same ground and time period again, but adding to the picture.

Answer 4

The sixth seal (heavenly signs) and seventh seal (seven trumpets) are different events.

As can be seen in this chart, the Seventh Seal is divided into Seven Trumpets, which in turn is divided into Seven Plagues.

Revelation 17 and 18 describe the resulting effects, and finally in Revelation 19, Christ returns.

A booklet, which describes all of Revelation in detail, contains this chart:

— Revelation: The Mystery Unveiled!, pages 22/23

Answer 5

There is definitely a relationship between the trumpets and the bowls and certainly, at least in some cases, even the seals. A previous answer talked about a progression and intensification. There is a huge difference between 1/3 of something being destroyed and 100 %. An important hermeneutical principle is to not force a figurative interpretation upon something which can be interpreted literally. Too many people rush to explain away Revelation as figurative perhaps because the literal interpretation is too horrifying to contemplate. Here is an example of the relationship between the three sets of judgments. The 5th seal, for example, describes the martyrs praying for vengeance and the 5th trumpet announces the demonic torturing of those who don’t have God’s seal. The 5th bowl brings about darkness, pain, and sores upon all those in the kingdom of the beast. The reason there is a difference between the trumpets and the bowls is that the saints are still on earth during the trumpet judgments. The bowls of wrath are poured out on the earth after the rapture in Revelation 14 and judgment on the earth is more devastating and complete. Understanding this can help you interpret Revelation and the future predictions more accurately. People often confuse the 6th trumpet with the 6th bowl. The 200 million man army that kills 1/3 of the earth is different from Armageddon when all the armies that come against Christ are wiped out.

Answer 6

The ‘gymnastics’ many perform with these seals, trumpets and bowls is fascinating. But unfortunately after doing these, you then need a crow bar to ‘move’ other ‘bits’ - or at the least, some clever reasoned arguments!

The Trumpets need the the seventh seal to be opened. So are you suggesting that the seals, although numbered, are actually opened in a different order to what John said? Yes you could ‘pad out’ a whole ‘reasoned’ answer, and ‘add’ how scrolls where opened and so on … but [sigh]

Many do this to make ‘bits’ fit. One widely accepted such conceived notion is that the seals ‘mirror’ Mathew 24. Really? I know they ‘sort of’ do in ‘some’ parts, but then comes the gymnastics.

No. Get your interpretation ‘right’ - and they all fit. My recommendation is be careful of following the ‘popular line’ of thinking. Listen to all the outlines. But beware and ensure you don’t just ‘fall’ for the first convincing, well articulated ‘right sounding’ explanation you hear.

Hint - the ‘seals’ are images, or what John ‘sees’ in the spiritual realm. The (first 4) trumpets are events that happen in the ‘physical realm’ (earth). What ‘happens’ in the spiritual ‘realm’ does not (always) instantly ‘manifest’ in the physical realm.

Hint 2 - read carefully! Example the second seal talks about ‘peace’ being removed. Like there has been peace prior to its opening? Many ‘equate’ (aka twist this around) to mean ‘war’. No! You need to ‘think’ - what peace has been removed? There is an answer - and - it makes sense, a lot of sense, unlike the ‘traditional interpretations’. …. etc.

Answer 7

Here we can find a good help that can lid to the Answer. https://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/tablecontents.htm#REV

Answer 8

Surely the peace that was taken away is when Papal Rome persecuted the church. Also, you can only understand Revelation if all the seals are opened, as then it is an open book as is written. You cannot just open one seal. As is written Christ only was able to open the book all of it not, that can only make sense. So if the book is open then it is written and coming into fruition.

I believe that the first horse is Papal Rome as it has a bow but no arrows! God or Christ has the arrows. The second horse is papal Rome and the beasts of the earth killing one-quarter of the earth through its dogmas. Third horse is papal Rome controlling the society and monetary system and the fourth horse is death and hell caused by papal Rome and its sorceries or lies.

These can only happen if all the seals are open, Rome would not exist if it did not know the Bible and the New Testament. Hope this helps, amen and Maranatha.