John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was [ἦν] with [πρὸς] God, and the Word was [ἦν] God.

In English, if A is with B, then A is not B. Does the Greek ἦν πρὸς allow this? If not, How can A is with B and is B simultaneously?

John 7:33

Jesus said, “I am [εἰμι] with [μεθ] you for only a short time, and then I am going to the one who sent me.

What's the difference between πρὸς/with and μεθ/with?

Related question:
In what way was the word with God?

I'm more interested in the Greek preposition and little in theology.

  • As Martin Luther pointed out, the articles are important as they prevent two different fundamental errors. ... the Word was with the Deity ... and Deity was the Word. (Up-voted +1.)
    – Nigel J
    Aug 5 at 13:58
  • If the Word was God, then all existence is God, since all objects in existence are part of Elohim's spoken Word as expressed in Bereshit 1. Aug 5 at 14:25
  • @חִידָה All in existence is within God. In him we love and move and have our being.
    – Nigel J
    Aug 5 at 16:26
  • Disagree with the frame about how English works. For example, my right arm is certainly with me. It also part of me. If I pick up something with it, I picked the thing up. Also, it picked the thing up. Both are simultaneously true.
    – T.E.D.
    Aug 5 at 23:07
  • Compare with "I am with France — I am France". Aug 6 at 1:38

When the authors of the New Testament refer to God, it's almost exclusively with respect to the Father. As such, when the Prologue of John's Gospel begins by introducing two figures, "The Word," and "God" (ho theos) the correct assumption is that "God" has the referent, "the Father" as it normatively does (with a few exceptions, of course, most of them famous and well known).

From this we can evaluate further statements such as, "and the Word was..."

Namely, the words ho theos, said with respect to the Father, are directly equivalent to our standard English noun "God" (with an upper case G, importantly — since this does change the meaning in English, whereas in Greek, such a distinction is here denoted by the definite article). Yet the word theos in kai theos en o logos denotes the fundamental naturr of "the Word" by the use of an anarthrous (or article-less) construction whereby a noun, denoting the fundamental identity (theos) or essence of the noun, is followed by a 'to be' verb (en), followed by the noun in question (ho logos).

The thrust of John 1:1c (or the third clause of John 1:1) is, then, "and the Word was [himself] God." This is also compounded by the next verse, said as though implying the expectation the reader will think, 'He's God too?:' "the same [Word] was in the beginning with God: all things were made by [or through] Him, and without Him was made nothing made" (John 1:2-3).

An analogy would be if we changed the noun theos ("God/god") for anthropos ("man") — kai anthropos en o logos. This would mean not, "and a man was the Word," but rather, "and the Word was man." — that is, as if we had said in the first clause, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with The Man, and the Word was man."

In both this example, and the real text of John, the fundamental essence of the Word is being denoted in the most secure and direct way possible — by direct equation using an unmistakable construction in Greek (where word order often denotes the importance of the concept or linguistic unit — here, the identity of the Word as specifically God [by nature]).

The question of two persons with the nature of "Theos" is not a question of Greek grammar, but of theology, and whether One who is God can be with another who is God. Traditional Christianity, as well as explicit passages in the New Testament, tell us that the Greek-speaking Apostles thought as much was certainly possible.

  • Very good answer, +1.
    – Dottard
    Aug 5 at 21:56

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1 The word is # 4314 (pros)

Strong's Concordance pros: advantageous for, at (denotes local proximity), toward (denotes motion toward a place) Original Word: πρός Part of Speech: Preposition Transliteration: pros Phonetic Spelling: (pros) Definition: advantageous for, at (denotes local proximity), toward (denotes motion toward a place) Usage: to, towards, with. HELPS Word-studies 4314 prós (a preposition) – properly, motion towards to "interface with" (literally, moving toward a goal or destination).

Toward is a better translation. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was toward God, and the Word was God Toward: In the direction of, along a course leading to.

That means the Word is toward God is heading in that direction towards His Goal. GOD

God declares the end from the beginning. God’s word that He has spoken going out and returning back towards Him.

For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. Romans 11:36

Remember what happened long ago, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. 10I declare the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.

The Word took on a new form when it became flesh.

The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

This word was now called Christ where God is reconciling the world back to Himself in Christ.

God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:19

Remember this is the Word that started at the beginning of creation and is still heading back toward God from where it originally started out of Him. It is still active accomplishing all it was sent out to do.

For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 0and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross. Colossians 1:20

The end is stated in 1 Corinthians 15:24 -28

Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was toward God, and the Word was God

  • With stative verbs, association is the concept of pros thus 'with' or 'in company with' is the meaning, See Daniel B Wallace Beyond the Basics p 380. (Not 'toward' which is a spatial concept, exclusively.)
    – Nigel J
    Aug 5 at 20:52
  • Nigel, I do not understand the Greek language like you do. I just rely on what I can see from sources like Bible hub and others that translate the Greek and Hebrew. I have seen other Bibles use the word towards and did not understand why until I did my own research.
    – Sherrie
    Aug 6 at 18:15
  • Thank you, Sherrie. I recommend Daniel Wallace's book because it really does go beyond the basics. Many people (and some of them publish books and websites) rely on elementary school-type knowledge of Greek which is quite sufficient to pass school exams but which is not adequate to accurately translate the apostolic writings inspired by the Holy Spirit of God. True, the vocabulary is remarkably unvaried, there is no literary excess, but the language is very concisely accurate, conveying spiritual concepts, and attention to the finer details of Koine Greek is most necessary. Regards.
    – Nigel J
    Aug 7 at 7:23

Jesus brought the idea of the relationship between the words of a person and the heart of a person in the book of Luke 6:45. The mouth speaks what the heart is full of. The very words you speak are a part of you, they dwell in your heart (with you) and reveal what's in your heart (are you).

A person is not deemed righteous by their physical appearance in the eyes of God, but by their heart. The heart is the main part of a person, the rest work together to bring forth its content/substance.

If you want to know what is in the heart of God, look no further than Jesus, the cross, the resurrection, it's God's heart revealed to men.

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    – agarza
    Aug 5 at 17:21
  • The above question relates to John 1:1 and the content of that specific text.
    – Nigel J
    Aug 5 at 21:06

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