Does Psalm 51:5 indicate that David was the illegitimate son of Jesse Or his woman?

Question

Psalm 51:5

5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

( The following youtube video link will lead to a video of a Charismatic/Pentecostal Pastor named Brian Carn who mentions that some Theologians indicate that Psalm 51:5 suggests that David was illegitimate(bastard) child:

https://youtu.be/Jdxmt_70zG0?t=1516

)

I would like make Arguments Against some theologians who state that Psalm 51:5 could be hinting/suggesting/indicating that David was an illegitimate(bastard) son of either Jesse or the wife of Jesse.

The reason being is that whenever the Bible usually mentions some kind of genealogy descendant tree then there usually is an indication if someone is of illegitimate birth, born to a different mother/father than his/her siblings or born to a concubine

-Jesus Christ birth is clearly indicated as being conceived when The Holy Spirit came upon Mary:

(Luke 1:34-35)

34 Mary said to the angel, “How [w]can this be, since I [x]am a virgin?” 35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the [y]holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

(Matthew 1:18)

18 Now the birth of Jesus the [p]Messiah was as follows: when His mother Mary had been [q]betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

• Jephthah the Gileadite in Judges 11 was the son of Gilead and a prostitute. Furthermore, Judges 11 clearly states that the half brothers of Gilead and his wife drove Jephthah away since he was the son of another woman.

( Judges 11:1-2 )

Now Jephthah the Gileadite was a [a]valiant warrior, but he was the son of a harlot. And Gilead [b]was the father of Jephthah. 2 Gilead’s wife bore him sons; and when his wife’s sons grew up, they drove Jephthah out and said to him, “You shall not have an inheritance in our father’s house, for you are the son of another woman.”

• Judges 8:29-31 clearly states that Abimelech was the son of Gideon and a concubine as opposed to his half brothers who were the sons of Gideon and his many wives.

( Judges 8:29-31 )

29 Then Jerubbaal( aka Gideon ) the son of Joash went and lived in his own house. 30 Now Gideon had seventy sons who [u]were his direct descendants, for he had many wives. 31 His concubine who was in Shechem also bore him a son, and he [v]named him Abimelech.

Therefore, the circumstantial evidence strongly suggest/hint that David was the legitimate son of Jesse and his wife, and his brothers were his full brothers.

Would the aforementioned assessment/inference/deduction be correct?

Answer 1

Does Psalm 15:5 reveal King David's ancestry caused a "sinful" birth?

As the Author of [Tehillim 15], David דָוִד writes in Hebrew - verse 7 : "Behold, with iniquity I was formed, and with sin my mother conceived me." ( הֵן־בְּעָו֥וֹן חוֹלָ֑לְתִּי וּ֜בְחֵ֗טְא יֶֽחֱמַ֥תְנִי אִמִּֽי )

• Perhaps the sin used to conceive דָוִד David came from the ancestry of his father יִשָֽׁי Yishay.

Can we prove יִשָֽׁי Yishay | "Jesse" was David's biological father?

• 1 Samuel 17:12
• 1 Chronicles 2:15
• Ruth 4:17
• Ruth 4:22

We learn about the biological father of דָוִד David in [1 Samuel 17:12] : "David was the son of this [Ephrathite] man from Bethlehem of Yehudah, whose name was [Yishay]" ( וְדָוִד בֶּן־אִ֨ישׁ אֶפְרָתִ֜י הַזֶּ֗ה מִבֵּ֥ית לֶ֙חֶם֙ יְהוּדָ֔ה וּשְׁמ֣וֹ יִשַׁ֔י )

Although a MT scribal error in [1 Chronicles 2:15] writes the name "David" דָּוִ֖יד (with an additional yod), we are reminded King David was "The-Seventh [son]" הַשְּׁבִעִֽי of יִשָֽׁי Yishay.

We then learn Yishay is descended from a Moabite! - Ruth. In [Ruth 4:22], David appears to be the only son from Yishay. Showing the reader how important David was to Ruth. (No offense to Ruth's other great-grandsons.)

[Ruth 4:22] only states : "And Oved begot Yishay, and Yishay begot David." ( וְעֹבֵד֙ הוֹלִ֣יד אֶת־יִשָׁ֔י וְיִשַׁ֖י הוֹלִ֥יד אֶת־דָּוִֽד )

What's interesting in [Ruth 4:13-17] is that we are reminded David (Yishay's son) was the descendant of a Moabite.

David's ancestry to Ruth the Moabite appears to be the iniquity referred to in [Psalm 15:7] in context to the Torah, specifically [Deuteronomy 23:3-4].

We learn David's great-grandfather Boaz would have broken the Mosaic law of [Deuteronomy 23:4] which stated : "An Ammonite or [Moabite] shall not enter the assembly of YHVH; even the tenth generation shall never enter the assembly of YHVH." ( לֹֽא־יָבֹ֧א עַמּוֹנִ֛י וּמֽוֹאָבִ֖י בִּקְהַ֣ל יְהֹוָ֑ה גַּ֚ם דּ֣וֹר עֲשִׂירִ֔י לֹֽא־יָבֹ֥א לָהֶ֛ם בִּקְהַ֥ל יְהֹוָ֖ה עַד־עוֹלָֽם )

Yishay as 2nd generation of Ruth the Moabite would have also sinned when conceiving his seventh son David. - Making David a third generation of a Moabite [Ruth 4:13-17] in the assembly of YHVH.

As King, David was required to make for himself a two copies of the scroll of Deuteronomy as stated in [Deuteronomy 17:18] to become familiar with Torah.

David would become aware of terms like "Mamzer" based on [Deuteronomy 23:3] "A Mamzer shall not enter the assembly of YHVH; even the tenth generation shall not enter the assembly of the YHVH." ( לֹֽא־יָבֹ֥א מַמְזֵ֖ר בִּקְהַ֣ל יְהֹוָ֑ה גַּ֚ם דּ֣וֹר עֲשִׂירִ֔י לֹֽא־יָבֹ֥א ל֖וֹ בִּקְהַ֥ל יְהֹוָֽה )

As a Moabite descendant, David may have regarded himself as a "Mamzer" based on [Deuteronomy 23:3-4]. This sin in David's conception would have come through the ancestry of his father Yishay.

Answer 2

“Now David was the son of an Ephrathite of Bethlehem in Judah, named Jesse, who had eight sons. In the days of Saul the man was already old and advanced in years.” ‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭17:12‬ ‭

The question relates to whether the eighth was born legitimately or out of wedlock. Of Jesse there is no indication he had multiple wives.

“And Jesse made seven of his sons pass before Samuel. And Samuel said to Jesse, “The Lord has not chosen these.” Then Samuel said to Jesse, “Are all your sons here?” And he said, “There remains yet the youngest, but behold, he is keeping the sheep.” And Samuel said to Jesse, “Send and get him, for we will not sit down till he comes here.”” ‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭16:10-11‬ ‭

According the Samuel there were eight sons

“Boaz fathered Obed, Obed fathered Jesse. Jesse fathered Eliab his firstborn, Abinadab the second, Shimea the third, Nethanel the fourth, Raddai the fifth, Ozem the sixth, David the seventh. And their sisters were Zeruiah and Abigail. The sons of Zeruiah: Abishai, Joab, and Asahel, three.” ‭‭1 Chronicles‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭

According to Chronicles there were only seven brothers and there are added two sisters. It would appear that one of the sons died leaving no heir, possibly chronicled during the life of David. Even today when asked parents who have multiple children will tell you how many they have living, even if they had one or more that died. They may or may not choose to specify that one has passed away. (My friend’s son passed and when I asked him recently how many children he had, he didn’t included the deceased child in the count).

Moving on.

David was in the Old Covenant system with the Law revealed by Moses. It states

““No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the Lord. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord.” ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭23:2‬ ‭

This is to the tenth generation. David’s forefather Judah had an illegitimate child with his daughter in law, but David was now the eleventh generation

“and Judah the father (Er the father of Perez) of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and 1Perez the father of 2Hezron, and Hezron the father of 3Ram, and Ram the father of 4Amminadab, and Amminadab the father of 5Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of 6Salmon, and Salmon the father of 7Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of 8Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of 9Jesse,” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:3-5‬ ‭ Emphasis is mine and additionally 10David

However on an initial count it appears that David is the tenth for only ten descendants of Judah are listed. However the child born to Tamar and Judah was a child that would be an heir to her first husband Er. This inserts Judah’s first son, and first husband of Tamar Er, into the numerical generation for Perez was born to be an heir to Er, the deceased father. This pushes David to the eleventh position.

God would not have accepted David had he been the tenth, much less were he to be born illegitimately.

Conclusion

If God was careful to observe the Law of the tenth generation which would have otherwise disqualified David from the throne, God would not have accepted an illegitimate child on His throne in the old covenant after just one generation. The interpretation that David was born illegitimately is unfounded given how careful God is not to break His own word/law/Torah.

Answer 3

Everything in the bible is Gods will but it is not all Gods purpose. Heaven and this world are two vastly different things. There is no sin in heaven because sin is not the act committed. Sin is the separation of God and Man. The sin is not the fact that you do a specific action but that you have done it without the direction of the creator. God needed to evolve humanity from nothing into 1000s of years of progressive society. This had to be done under freewill in order for the bargain or punishment Lucifer brought on mankind was set. That is why there is very limited direct involvement in this world. That is not a completely factual statement God can choose what he wishes. Therefore in a world vastly different form Heaven God formed rules to guide man into the ultimate goal. Melding the separation between us. So sin in the argumentative form is everything is sin. Its why the only true commandment is love God. At times I question things that I am guided to do. Not because I doubt God, but I doubt the messenger. I'm lied to constantly, tricked, and time changes. God is not of confusion. So often times I contemplate my actions because God really does not need me to renew my Palms card or vape to be his vessel. In all actuality God does not really need me to do anything as creator. But my participation is required the trick is how much, and is this for God. I'm extremely critical of myself not because I feel inferior. It is because I take the responsibility extremely serious not just for myself but for everyone else. So I am constantly searching for the right answers, in a mess of liars, protecting those who are not my besties to say the least. Anyway the bloodline of David isn't the Line to Christs family anyway. Its when Jesus looks at John at the foot of the cross and says mother behold your son. Because John isn't at the last supper its the only gospel without it. Jesus on the cross is preforming the last supper on the cross turning John into his bloodline. John is not martyred and him and Mary magdalen have a child. That's the holy grail.

Answer 4

Ps. 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

The belief Ps. 51:5 refers to David’s mother as an adulteress rather than David born in sin has been gaining momentum within the last 50-100 years….and it is fast becoming mainstream.

The older historic interpretation of Ps. 51 as referring only and exclusively to David and not his mother, were the exclusionary civil laws barring certain individuals or groups from leadership in the political realm of Israel. These would be considered to be teachers, judges, elders, officers and even kings.

Civil exclusionary laws are located in Dt. 23:1-3 of which vs. 2 is pertinent: No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the Lord; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the Lord.

It would be impossible for David to be King of Israel and a bastard at the same time.

This interpretation is just not sustainable within the context of the obedience to the Law in OT, especially at the highest and most public civil office in Israel.

Note: Barred individuals were not excluded from the religious and ceremonial life of the nation of Israel, but only from the political life of the nation.

Other reasons why some don’t believe David was born in original sin are fairly obnoxious ....such as the Psalms by nature are poetic can’t be interpreted literally or no interpretation can be assigned to any doctrine comprised of poetical or figurative language.

Answer 5

That there’s a specific law in Deuteronomy 23:2 that prohibits an illegitimate child from being King of Israel does not ultimately prevent the aforementioned. If it did prevent such a thing then nobody would be able to disobey the Law of Moses because God itself was preventing it. The law means that if a King or High Priest was later disclosed as being an illegitimate child they could be rightfully removed from that power according to the Law of Moses.

Psalm 51:5 is not about King David being the illegitimate child. The verse is speaking of the son of King David. An unnamed child that dies from illness in 2 Samuel 12:18. And yes, the Law of Moses was fulfilled by the LORD.

Psalm 51:6 is about a child with wisdom. Solomon. The wisdom of Solomon.

Solomon is shortly afterwards conceived and in the womb of Bathsheba.

The prophet Nathan was sent to King David about this marriage that has displeased the LORD. King David then writes this Psalm as repentance for his wicked scheme to marry Bathsheba. 2 Samuel 12:7

The LORD condemns the marriage between King David and Bathsheba but the LORD does not say King David will be prevented from being King, 2 Samuel 12:7-12. The prophecy is a family war and wives taken away. Whether or not the marriage between King David and Bathsheba that resulted in the birth of the next King, was the judgement of the LORD. Solomon did become King.

Answer 6

As already stated, the bible does not answer the question.  Jewish tradition holds that Jesse and his mother were married.

Answer 7

I think the point everyone is missing is Perhaps God did not write those laws. David was born illegitimately and so was Jesus. They were both bastards from the Laws point of view, but then, why would God allow to bastards to sit on the throne? Because he's not human, he doesn't see things the way you do, he is not prejudiced, and I don't believe he wrote half of those laws. As Jesus said, commandments of men