Revelation 12:7 and there was war in heaven, is this before the creation Gen. 1:1 or is it in between Gen.1:1 and Gen. 1:2?

Question

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven". I am trying to understand if the war is before creation. Gen. 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." I know that our God is perfect in all His ways and if He creates it then it has to be all good. And verse 2, "The earth was without form and void". Could Revelation 12:7 fall in between the two verses?

Answer 1

The "war in heaven" would be unlike anything that we would be accustomed to seeing and is probably (at least in part) symbolic language. However, as far as timing of this war in heaven is concerned, we should note the following:

• Rev 12:9 says, "But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels." See also V10-13. At the conclusion of the war - Satan and his angels were banished from heaven.

This appears to be an allusion to something Jesus said as a prophecy:

• Luke 10:18 - So He told them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

However, in the Old Testament in Job 1 and 2 we see Satan entering heaven on two occasions for a conference. (We are not told how many other times this occurred.)

Thus, it appears that after Jesus' death and resurrection, Satan was banished from heaven finishing the war in heaven- which now continues on earth (Eph 6:10-17).

I do not see any direct link between Gen 1 and Satan's war in heaven. All I see is his banishment from heaven following Jesus resurrection.

Answer 2

17 Now the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name!” 18 And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. Luke 10:18

This is in the context of the disciples having their victory over evil spirits. Jesus expresses his unique view of the state of affairs (as the only man without sin and the resultant corrupted mind)

We should not insist the time frame for this as some time other than the immediate context. Jesus expression is intended to teach his fledgling students, the import of what they are dealing with - the devil is well aware and is paying attention to their actions, he is around to hinder any way he can.

Regarding Rev 12, there is quite a jumble of different times mentioned which are clearly not sequential.

There is no reason to surmise this event is yet future based on such a premise.

John is recounting a vision that clearly has many disturbing and incomprehensible scenes. It is not intended as a timeline of events, but a brief synopsis of the important contributing factors to the plan of salvation - both for and against.

Satan is already king of the world before Jesus arrives on the scene and his ministry begins.

The dragon was already on earth as the serpent in the Garden at the beginning - he has remained here as the 'god of this world' ever since. Having been 'thrown down to the earth' v9, is the place God assigned as his realm for the present age. It is not for Satan to choose another place.

11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb

This is a a sign of Satan’s rule drawing to an end, therefore it already is in place (since the Garden) but now, in Christ, being displaced steadily and surely.

The event of v7 cannot be future, it must be pre-mankind, pre-Adam. The war that is fought in the future is fought on earth.

Rev 12:17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Answer 3

This occurs in the end time, neither before Genesis 1:1, nor between 1:1 and 1:2.

Even denominations that believe there was a large gap of time between the first two verses of Genesis, during which Satan (Lucifer) tried to take over heaven, don't think that Revelation 12:7 happened then.

For instance:

We see what appears to be a parallel situation in Revelation 12:7-9, which describes an attempt by Satan to overthrow God shortly before Christ's return …
The World Before Man: The Biblical Explanation | United Church of God.

Answer 4

What we know as biblical text is all written linearly. God does not see time this way. Having said that SCIENCE and the bible are actually telling same story. You see there was great war before adam was created. Planets were destroyed, and so to the earth when satan was sent crashing down to earth. God actually remade the earth. This is one of reason why satan was in the garden. And yes satan does appear in council before God from time to time. We give him chance to attack us, by our mouth or action and he PETITION permission to attack us. You see you are PROTECTED by the blood of Yashua. But we often give him a crack to attack us. This war in heaven explains radio CARBON dating, the dinosaur etc. You must also remember and understand that during days of Noah the fallen set about to CORRUPT n mutate everything God had made, genetics. This is where we are now, we have returned to those days, evil is pervasive, immorality everywhere. The time is at hand. You simply have to look around last 2 years to see bible prophecy in real time.

The war is not over. It is just beginning. You will know the exact timing when you see the church, the Christian ppl, raptured. This is BEGINNING of great tribulation. The ground has been set by satan these past few years. The battle is about to begin.

Answer 5

Revelation 12:7 and there was war in heaven, is this before the creation Gen. 1:1 or is it in between Gen.1:1 and Gen. 1:2?

Revelation 1:1 NASB

The Revelation of Jesus Christ

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and [a]communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

The Revelation -- "the things which must soon take place"-- was given to John about 96 C.E. hence the war in heaven broke out well after the creation. Read also Rev.12:9 below

Revelation 12:7-9 (NASB)

The Angel, Michael

7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8 and they did not prevail, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

From Vs 9 it is obvious that the war broke in heaven well after the creation, for John wrote: "the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world", (mankind) was thrown down to the earth."

So when did the war in heaven break up? The war broke out at the " end of the times of the Gentiles." Luke wrote,

Luke 21:24 (NASB)

24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Answer 6

right before Adam and Eve sinned...the Devil had his rebellion...it was with Humility that Saint Michael seeing the onslaught of lucifer's legions...he fell to his knees and said "Quis Ut Deus" the great rallying cry that immediately drew Saint Gabriel and Saint Raphael and their legions to his side...Almighty God seeing this display of humility and love gave Michael and all with him the power to overthrow Lucifer and the rebels...for without the Power of God Lucifer would have conquered after the fall the devil made a plea to God...and he permitted him to test Adam and Eve..to prove a point

Answer 7

The meaning of the war in heaven may be understood through the result of the war. That is, the dragon, or Satan was "thrown down from heaven". That is, from a position of authority and power.

The manner of his overthrow is explained in v11; "They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony." These two "weapons" are both about the forgiveness of sin. The blood of the Lamb made forgiveness of sin possible. The word of testimony spreads the knowledge of the forgiveness of sin. This leads to an important conclusion;

"Human awareness of the possibility of forgiveness of sin IS the defeat of Satan."

This makes sense when we see Satan called "the accuser of our brethren" (v10). His function is to "accuse" men of their sins, to make God aware of them (compare Job ch1). That is where he gets his "power" over men. Forgiveness of sin takes away that function and takes away that power, "throwing him down from heaven" (compare Zecharain ch3 vv1-5).

Satan is angry that he is thrown down from heaven (v12) and therefore "pursues" God's people (from v13 to the end of ch13). The connecting link is that he finds a different way of acting as an accuser. "If I cannot any longer accuse them in front of God, then I'll accuse them in front of human authority instead."

In the main narrative sequence of Revelation, ch15 is the immediate sequel of ch11. In ch12 and ch13, the vision steps aside from the main narrative for a moment in order to explain that this whole persecution of the church is Satan's attempt to gain revenge for the Atonement.

In a previous chapter, the Lamb is called "worthy" because "thou wast slain and by thy blood didst ransom men for God" (ch5 v9). This is key. The Atonement is the driving force behind the events of Revelation, enabling God to save us from both versions of the accusing power of Satan.

And the "war in heaven" in ch12 is a dramatised version of the doctrine of the Atonement. It is about Satan's defeat by the event of the Cross.

Answer 8

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to point out unto his servants the things which must needs come to pass with speed,––and he shewed them by signs, sending through his messenger, unto his servant John ...

Revelation 1:1 Rotherham

... the things which must needs come to pass ...
There is a prophetic section, i.e. the future.
This is not chronologically connected with any earlier time, including the creation.

... with speed ...
The events in the prophetic section begin to unfold immediately from the time of writing.

... shewed them by signs ...
The prophetic section is in hieroglyph or symbols.
Obviously, "war in heaven" has nothing to do with war in heaven.

The prophetic section is introduced :

Come up hither! and I will point out to thee the things which must needs come to pass.

Revelation 4:1 Rotherham

And begins proper with chapter 6.

The events in Revelation 12, not surprisingly have nothing to do with "war in heaven".
Jesus is not the man child, there is no dragon and so on and so forth.
I suggest walking through the history of the world from John's time, more particularly the writing of Revelation, until now.
That is the span of the prophetic section. Its purpose being to shine a light for all believers between the departure of the king and his return.

We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

2 Peter 1:19 NIV

Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing
without revealing his plan
to his servants the prophets.

Amos 3:7 NIV

This might be helpful ...

A plan of the revelation.

The revelation can be divided into 7 sections :

1. The prologue or introduction. | 1:1 ~ 1:3
   
   
2. The messages to the seven churches.
   The things that were seen.
   
   Introduction | 1:4 ~ 1:20
   Seven Messages | 2:1 ~ 3:22
   
   
3. Activity in heaven.
   The things that are.
   
   Jesus as Messenger | 4:1 ~ 5:14
   
   
4. The prophetic section.
   The things that will be.
   
   Seal 1 ~ 6 | 6:1 ~ 6:17
   The Reedemed | 7:1 ~ 7:17
   Seal 7 | 8:1 ~ 8:6
   
   Trumpet 1 ~ 4 | 8:7 ~ 8:12
   Warning of 3 Woes | 8:13
   Trumpet 5 | Woe 1 | 9:1 ~ 9:12
   Trumpet 6 | 9:13 ~ 9:21
   7 Thunders | 10:1 ~ 10:11
   Woe 2 | 11:1 ~ 11:14
   Trumpet 7 | 11:15 ~ 11:19
   Woman & Son & Dragon | Woe 3 | 12:1 ~ 12:17
   Sea Beast | 13:1 ~ 13:10
   Earth Beast | 13:11 ~ 13:18
   The Redemed & Judgement | 14:1 ~ 14:20
   
   Introduction to 7 Plagues | 15:1 ~ 16:1
   Vial 1 ~ 6 | 16:2 ~ 16:12
   3 Frogs & Armageddon | 16:13 ~ 16:16
   Vial 7 | 16:17 ~ 16:21
   
   Beast Punished | 17:1 ~ 19:21
   
   
5. The 1000 Years | 20:1 ~ 20:15
   
   
6. The New Jerusalem | 21:1 ~ 22:5
   
   
7. Warning & Promise | 22:6 ~ 22:21

Plan of seals, trumpets, vials.

There is a chronological progression with the important caveat that the 7th seal contains all 7 trumpets and the 7th trumpet contains all 7 vials.
Visually :

<----- Seal 1 - 6 -----><-------------------- Seal  7 -------------------->
                        <----- Trumpet 1 - 6 -----><----- Trumpet  7 ----->
                                                   <----- Vial 1 - 7 ----->