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Are the 144,000 in Revelation 7 the same as those spoken of in Chapter 14?

While there are similarities there are also differences. The 144,000 of chapter 7 are Jewish as indicated belonging to the 12 tribes with the seal of the Father. The 144,000 of chapter 14 have the Father and Son's seal and were redeemed from the earth.

  • Note that Rev 7:7, 8 are mentioned the tribes of Levi and Joseph which were not listed in the 12 tribes of Numbers chapter 1. – agarza Nov 17 '20 at 3:12
  • Yes, and Dan was listed in Numbers but not Revelation – Everett Nov 17 '20 at 3:27
  • The difference could be due to copying errors, made on purpose by someone that had something to gain by confusing the issue. Maybe God new that this was going to happen, therefore putting in the clause of condemnation to those who added or subtracted anything In the text. – Constantthin Nov 18 '20 at 0:13
  • The 144,000 of chapter 7 are Jewish as indicated belonging to the 12 tribes - Not necessarily; see Romans 11:17-21 and 11:24. – Lucian Nov 19 '20 at 1:19
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Are the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14 the same group of people?

The answer is "Yes", Revelation 14 says " These have been purchased from mankind as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Revelation 14:4 NASB

4 These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are celibate. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from mankind as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

In Revelation 7:4-8 the tribes of Ephraim and Dan do not appear as not deserving symbolic significance, the twelve tribes mentioned are symbolic and refer to the spiritual Israel, or the "Israel of God".Literal circumcision, even for fleshly Jews, had no further spiritual value in God's eyes. For those in the new covenant, the heart, not the flesh, must be circumcised. Hence Paul wrote.

Galatians 6:16 NASB

16 And all who will follow this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Romans 2:29 NASB

29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God.

The gathering of the 144,000

For seven years,(Daniel 9:27 The Abrahamic covenant)) this unique privilege of "adoption as sons of God was preached" to the Jews, but since not enough of them accepted the invitation, it was also preached to the Gentiles. With Cornelius being the first gentile to be "adopted as a son of God".

Natural Israel failed to produce the required number, so God “turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name”. From Romans 11:13 we note that Paul is addressing Christians of non--Jewish origin, and continues in Vs 17 with the illustration of the cultivation of an olive tree to show how God’s purpose with regard to the Abrahamic covenant (Genesis 17:1-8 and 22:15-18) was being fulfilled.

Since non-Jews would receive this “holy calling” only until the “full number” was reached of those making up “the Israel of God,” (Galatians 6:15-16) logically the number of such spiritual Israelites purchase from among mankind is limited to 144,000.00

The parable of the Great Banquet." Luke 14:15-24 NET also refers to the calling of the 144,000

https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2014%3A15-24&version=NASB;NET

The Man providing the meal Vs 16 is God, the slave extending the invitation is Jesus Vs 1 7and the invitation to the great banquet, the opportunities to be in line for the Kingdom of the heavens.

First, call. Vs 17-20 To those invited, refers to the Israelite religious leaders.

From Pentecost 33 C.E.the invitation was extended to the ordinary Israelites the poor the needy, and the lowly ones of the Jewish Nation.

The second call, Vs 21 " Then the master of the household was furious and said to his slave, ‘Go out quickly to the streets and alleys of the city, and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind, and the lame.’

Again , since not enough Israelites responded to the invitation, in 3 6 C.E. three and a half years later the invitation was extended to the people of the Nations, the uncircumcised non-Jews. The gathering is continuing to our days.

Third call. Vs 23 was to the Gentiles ."23 So the master said to his slave, ‘Go out to the highways and country roads and urge people to come in, so that my house will be filled.

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In the NT the apostle Paul and others are at pains to eliminate the distinction between literal and spiritual Israel, or "Israel of God". We note the following:

  • Rom 9:6-8 - It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children ... So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.
  • Eph 2:11-13 - Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
  • Gal 3:26-29 - You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.
  • Gal 6:15, 16 - For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything. What counts is a new creation. Peace and mercy to all who walk by this rule, even to the Israel of God.
  • Mark 11:17 - Then Jesus began to teach them, and He declared, “Is it not written: ‘My house will be called a house of prayer for all the nations’? ...

The same can be seen in Rev 7 with the description of the 144,000 and their 12 "tribes": such a list of the 12 tribes occurs nowhere in the OT and is unique:

  • There is no tribe of Dan
  • There is a tribe of Joseph and a tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim
  • The order is also quite different - Judah comes first which was never the case in the OT
  • Levi is listed as a "tribe" despite no being such in the OT

However, we note that in both Rev 7 & 14, the 144,000 have the single distinguishing characteristic of having the "seal of God" (Rev 7:3, 4, 14:1) on their foreheads, namely the Name of God.

The "seal of God" denotes the protection enjoyed by God’s faithful people (Rev 7:2, 9:4). Thus, God’s people are miraculously preserved who have the seal of God which denotes the Name of the Lamb and the Father written on the forehead (Rev 14:2; see also Ex 13:9, 28:38, Eze 9:4).

This seal of God is shown to be the Holy Spirit is several places such as 2 Cor 1:22, Eph 1:13, 14, 4:30; and this seal is the mark of ownership of God's people, 2 Tim 2:19. Thus, the 144,000 are those who (Rev 14:3-5) -

  • had been redeemed from the earth.
  • have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins.
  • follow the Lamb wherever He goes.
  • have been redeemed from among men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.
  • no lie was found in their mouths;
  • are blameless.
  • Are sealed in their foreheads with the Name of the Lamb and the Father's Name by the Holy Spirit
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Yes, they are the same 144,000. The 144,000 are the fulfillment of the "ten thousands of his saints" predicted in the first Enoch scroll:

Jude 1 NKJV - (14) Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, (15) to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

They also are the fulfillment of this:

[Jer 16:14-17 KJV] (14) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; (15) But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. (16) Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks. (17) For mine eyes [are] upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.

[Mat 4:18-20 NKJV] (18) And Jesus, walking by the Sea of Galilee, saw two brothers, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen. (19) Then He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." (20) They immediately left [their] nets and followed Him.

[Mat 10:5-7 NKJV] (5) These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. (6) "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (7) "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

So in Jesus' earthly mission, his objective was to regather the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Ezekiel 37) and snatch them up to meet him in the air and then descend with them to prosecute judgment on the temple (Malachi 3), Jerusalem (Luke 21:22), the hireling shepherds (Ezekiel 34) and those who persecuted the prophets, Rome and her allies, Etc. This judgement is in the form of the horrific war with Rome c.70 AD/CE.

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