When did Jesus go to the Father? John 16:7

Question

In light of this excerpt from impossible to receive Holy Spirit while Jesus was physically on earth by fellow member Dottard

“Now, there is one more subtlety. Jesus declared in John 16:7 that unless Jesus went away the Holy Spirit would not come to the disciples. Since we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit by faith, while Jesus was personally and physically present with the disciple, it would have been humanly almost impossible for them to exercise that faith to receive "another" comforter. Hence Jesus remark.”

The question that follows in my mind is, “when did Jesus go to the Father?”

1. at the ascension as per

“While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.” ‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:51‬

2. prior to the ascension as per

““A little while, and you will see me no longer; and again a little while, and you will see me.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭16:16‬

And

“Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not YET ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”” ‭‭John‬ ‭20:17‬

Depending on when Jesus ascended, as to when the Comforter could come and be received by the disciples as per

“Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.” ‭‭John‬ ‭16:7‬

My position is that the disciples received the Holy Spirit while Jesus was on earth (went and returned from the Father after incident with Mary) and not in Acts 2

“And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” ‭‭John‬ ‭20:22‬

This is after the incident with Mary in the garden. But I’m open to being corrected that it’s actually in Acts 2 or elsewhere using the Scriptures.

Answer 1

Here's an answer I posted elsewhere a couple of years ago:

On the first Sunday after Passover, Jesus wouldn’t let anyone touch him. John 20:17 says “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father …”.

Yet later that day he did allow people to touch him. This implies that he had ascended to heaven sometime during that day.

Following the Passover, priests made a wave-sheaf offering to heaven of the first fruits of the spring harvest, leading to Pentecost 50 days later. According to a footnote in Wave offering - Wikipedia: "Karaite Jews begin the count on the Sunday within the holiday week".

Symbolically, this offering to heaven of the first-fruits of the Spring harvest represents Jesus’s ascension to heaven as the first-fruit of God’s spiritual harvest of mankind.

1Corinthians 15:20 says: “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

Not many churches still teach this, but the Biblical holidays and ceremonies are full of symbolism of Jesus and God’s plan for salvation.

Here’s an example of one specific ceremony: The Wave Sheaf Offering: A Ceremony Foreshadowing Salvation

Answer 2

This whole question relates to the Person of Christ.

The Son of God is ever with the Father. And he told us that the Son of man (The Son, of man) is in heaven. 'Is' in heaven. He spoke those words when his physical feet were on this earth, John 3:13.

He was separated from his God (as man to God) in his sufferings. My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me, Matthew 27:46 ? What that may mean in terms of His Deity is not something I would care to comment on, specifically, at this present time.

But after he said 'It is finished', John 19:30, he commended his spirit to the Father, Luke 23:46. His human soul descended into hades, Ephesians 4:9, 1 Peter 3:19-20. But 'thou shalt not leave my soul in hades, nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption', Acts 2:27, Psalm 16:10. He was resurrected by 'the glory of the Father', Romans 6:4, and his human soul reunited with his human body.

His spirit was with the Father. The spirit, of the Son, was with the Father, as always. (Except if one take it to be the case that, during suffering, the Son of God was forsaken by the Father, in terms of Deity as well as humanity.)

But he had not, yet - in humanity - ascended to the Father, in the body.

And it was not appropriate for a woman to touch him or hug him, physically, whilst yet he - a celibate man - was physically on earth, John 20:17.

Nor, see below, 2 Corinthians 5:16, is that how he is - now, risen - to be known.

When ascended, in humanity, to the throne of God in heavens, then he may be 'touched' and 'embraced' in spirit.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV]

Answer 3

There actually four matters here that I will take one at a time:

Parakletos

The Greek word, despite occurring only five times in the NT (John 14:16, 26, 15:26, 16:7, 1 John 2:1) is very well known and is variously translated as "comforter", "helper", "advocate", etc. I note the following three points:

• Once parakletos refers to Jesus in 1 John 2:1
• The remaining times, as per John 14:26, it refers to the Holy Spirit
• The Holy Spirit, as the parakletos is called, in John 14:16, "another" = ἄλλος (allos) = another of the same type (ie as Jesus the parakletos) as distinct from ἕτερος (heteros) = another of different kind.

When was the Holy Spirit "come"?

It is clear from numerous references (eg, Gen 1:1, Deut 32:10, 11, Judges 15:14, Isa 6310, 11, Ps 51:11, 104:30, Saul's experience of being possessed by the Spirit, etc) that the Holy Spirit was active all the way through the OT. Thus, the HS did not suddenly arrive in Acts but had always been at work among and through God's people.

Why was the Holy Spirit "given" in the NT

I suggest that Jesus gave the disciples a number of things that they already had but did not realize it such as Jesus' "new commandment" of love, John 13:34, 35 - this was explicit in OT places like, Deut 6:4, 5, Lev 19:18, etc.

Following Jesus' ministry, the work of the Holy Spirit, while always present, would become far more important and prominent after Jesus' departure. This is seen clearly in the book of Acts as is well known. In preparation for this, Jesus bequeathed the gift of the Spirit in John 20:22 whose visible manifestation came in Acts 2 and many other times since.

While Jesus was visibly and physically present, it would have been humanly impossible to "see" the invisible Holy Spirit by faith. Thus, the Holy Spirit was to act, as Jesus did, as teacher, comforter and guide after Jesus was physically removed but still present by His Spirit.

When Did Jesus Go to the Father?

I agree with our colleague, Ray Butterworth, who suggests that Jesus apparently ascended between his request not to be touched in John 20:17 (Sunday morning) and his explicit instruction to touch Him in Luke 24:39 on Sunday evening.