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In Dan, Ch 12, the first 3 verses are in reference to the end-times. In verses 4, 8 & 9, an angel and Daniel converse regarding concealment (of words) until the end-times. Verses 10 through 13 are again in reference to the end-times but verses 5,6 & 7 may not be referencing the end-times. These particular verses talk about the man dressed in linen, above the waters of the river Tigris - who introduced himself in Dan, Ch.10, to talk about the Prophecies Concerning the Nations, which also involved the whole of Ch. 11 - who is now seen with two others, one of whom asks the man dressed in linen..."How long will it be until the end of these wonders?", the ensuing response is that... "it would be for a time, times and half a time (1260 days), and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed" ...

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Daniel chap. 9 through Chap. 12 are all in answer to Daniel's prayer to know when God would allow his people to return to Jerusalem.

"in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, have understood by books the number of the years, (in that a word of Jehovah hath been unto Jeremiah the prophet,) concerning the fulfilling of the wastes of Jerusalem -- seventy years; 3 and I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek [by] prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes.

"4 And I pray to Jehovah my God, and confess, and say: `I beseech Thee, O Lord God, the great and the fearful, keeping the covenant and the kindness to those loving Him, and to those keeping His commands; (Dan. 9:2-4, YLT)

Then Daniel rehearses the sins of the people of Judah, and all Israel who are even far off (those of the Assyrian captivity) from vs. 5-18 begging for God's mercy and forgiveness.

"19 O lord, hear, O Lord, forgive; O Lord, attend and do; do not delay, for Thine own sake, O my God, for Thy name is called on Thy city, and on Thy people.'"

"20 And while I am speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin, and the sin of my people Israel, and causing my supplication to fall before Jehovah my God, for the holy mount of my God," (Dan. 9:19-20, YLT)

The entirety of Daniel's prayer is for his people... for Judah, and all Israel, and for their return to rebuild Jerusalem as the prophet Jeremiah had foretold in the holy mountain. He wanted to know when the 70 years would be completed.

All of the prophesy that follows is in answer to Daniel's question of when they would be allowed to return to Jerusalem where the temple of God was located. God's temple was God's holy mountain here on earth. It represented the heavenly temple above.

The holy people then are those that had occupied that holy mountain in Jerusalem... the tribe of Judah, and all Israel whom Daniel was praying for. And, Gabriel came to tell Daniel the answer to his prayer... when? When would be the end of the desolations of Jerusalem?

"23 at the commencement of thy supplications hath the word come forth, and I have come to declare [it], for thou [art] greatly desired, and understand thou concerning the matter, and consider concerning the appearance.

24 `Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies." (Dan. 9:23-24, YLT)

The English word weeks is originally "sevens" in the Hebrew, and the reference is to years as was defined in vs. 2 and in Jeremiah chap. 25:11-12 and Jer. 29:10 which Daniel had discovered in his reading.

Gabriel defined everything in vs. 24. The prophesy is for "thy people and for thy holy city". Who were Daniel's people and where was Daniel's holy city? They were the tribes of Israel who had sinned against God, had broken the covenant, and had been cast out into captivity in a foreign pagan land... but specifically the Judeans held in Babylon.

This prophesy did not apply to any other people in any other land. The holy people were those who had occupied the holy city. They were not Persians, Arabians, Russians, Americans, Chinese, French, Norwegian, nor any other people from any other nation. At that time, they were the Jews.

What Daniel did not realize is the way he phrased the question to God was not what he thought he was asking. Daniel thought that the return after 70 years to rebuild and occupy their land and their city of Jerusalem would be the end of its desolation, or waste. But, since Daniel asked for when the end of Jerusalem's desolations would be, God answered Daniel's actual question the very way he had worded it.

Gabriel was correcting Daniel's misunderstanding. Not seventy years, but seventy sevens of years (490 years) would be the end of Jerusalem's desolation, or waste. And, all of the events Gabriel listed in vs. 24 would happen within those 490 years. Nothing of that prophesy would be for after the 490 years. The entire prophesy was centered around the events that would eventually completely destroy the holy city... Jerusalem, and it's temple.

All of the information in Dan. chap. 10 -11 centered around the events of Daniel's people to return and occupy and rebuild Jerusalem and the temple. All of the events of the approx. 400 years of history in Dan. ch. 11 are in relation to and surround Jerusalem. The kings of the north (the Seleucid dynasty) were those north of Jerusalem, just as the kings of the south (the Ptolemaic dynasty) were those south of Jerusalem.

Daniel was reeling with this information as he mourned and fasted for 3 weeks (Dan 10:2-3). The man clothed in linen - a holy priestly garment used throughout the tabernacle in Ex. 25-27, and of the high priest Ex. 39:27-29 - was described with the same language in Dan. 10:5-6 as John described our Lord and Savior in Rev. 1:13-18. I believe the man in linen was Christ, the Messiah prophesied throughout the OT, and the Messenger (Angel) of the Lord (Gen. 16:7; 22:15; Ex. 3:2; Num. 22:22; Jud. 13:16; Mal. 3:1, etc.).

He told Daniel of the end of Jerusalem, the end of the desolations of Jerusalem which Daniel had unknowingly asked to know (Dan. 9:2).

"14 and I have come to cause thee to understand that which doth happen to thy people in the latter end of the days, for yet the vision [is] after days." (Dan. 10:14, YLT)

Daniel's people were the holy people, and the prophesy was still concerning the end of Jerusalem's desolations in the latter end of the days. This is the context throughout all of the rest of the book of Daniel. Daniel was still trying to comprehend the end of Jerusalem as such a thought was completely foreign to him. He asked in chap. 12 of the man in linen "when?".

"7 And I hear the one clothed in linen, who [is] upon the waters of the flood, and he doth lift up his right hand and his left unto the heavens, and sweareth by Him who is living to the age, that, `After a time, times, and a half, and at the completion of the scattering of the power of the holy people, finished are all these.'" (Dan. 12:7, YLT)

The two others standing on each side of the flood, or each bank of the great river appeared to Daniel by the Euphrates river. The defining moment of the "end of these things" as well as "the latter days" was when the power of the holy people shall have been scattered, or some versions say shattered. The holy people were Daniel's people... those Judeans and all of those of the tribes of Israel who returned from the Babylonian captivity to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple.

The time of the prophesies, the time of "the end" was when their power over that holy city and that temple was scattered / shattered; when that city and temple were destroyed in the Roman-Jewish wars of AD 67-70. That was the end of the old covenant, animal sacrificial temple system in Jerusalem.

Once that temple was destroyed the ruling authorities in Jerusalem no longer had the power to coerce and terrorize the people, to persecute those who followed The Way of our Savior. All of the animal sacrifices of the old covenant had become profane once Christ became the last sacrifice, the once for all sacrifice (Heb. 10:10) for all sins. The end of days, or the latter days concerned that temple in Jerusalem which Jesus told His disciples would be destroyed in Matthew 24:15 where He linked the desolations and the tribulations to Dan. chap. 12.

The "end of these things" was never speaking about an end of time, nor an end-of-the-world destruction. These events took place in the first century AD (CE) just as had been prophesied.

Further reading:

"The Seventy Weeks of Daniel chap. 9" ShreddingTheVeil

"Daniel and The End Times" ShreddingTheVeil

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  • I had given up all hope of anyone answering this Q. Even when "Community resurrected same, still nobody saw fit to answer, so you answering it now is much appreciated. In answering, you have touched onto my pet project, i.e. the "70 Weeks" prophecy, a labor of love, which took months to finalize, becoming somewhat of a thesis at 4000 words plus. Here is the link if you are interested .. hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/38249/… .. We agree on many aspects but differ on much....continued- – Olde English Oct 27 '20 at 21:25
  • ..following on. While we agree that the 70 Weeks was finalized in the 1st Cent AD, we don't agree on the timing, particularly as to the ending of the 69th week. However to get back to the Q. in hand. I don't see the "holy people" referring to...those (Jews) who had occupied the holy city... whether it be in Daniel's time, or the Messiah's. Many a Jew was far from (truly) holy, so I still go with my 12 disciples. I did have a look at "Shredding the Veil" and was impressed by your involvement. Not a fan of YLT, but then again I'm not a fan of most bible translations. You have my vote however. – Olde English Oct 27 '20 at 21:54
  • Olde English - it was the covenant with the descendants of Abraham that was the promise between God and the tribes of Israel that He referred to as His people. I agree that there were many of Abraham's descendants who were far from righteousness. But it was always the line of the faithful who were righteous, and this particular prophesy was directed at Daniel's people. Thy holy city could only have been Jerusalem until Christ's death on the cross which started the countdown to it's destruction. HE was cut off in the middle of the 70th week. Only happened in the 1st cent. AD. – Gina Oct 27 '20 at 23:04
  • The prophecy was against the Jews, of which Daniel was one but the prophecy came to a head in the time of Jesus, at least as far as the 69 weeks were concerned. Jesus (Messiah) was cut-off (crucified) at end of the 69th week, NOT in the middle of the 70th. The holy city in question was indeed Jerusalem. All is outlined, in no uncertain terms, in my thesis, where I theorize that the 70th week encompassed the Fall of 66 AD thru the Fall of 73 AD, which allowed for the "Great Commission" by the 12 disciples amounting to 33 1/2 years, which just happened to equal the life span of Jesus. – Olde English Oct 28 '20 at 3:10
  • 33 1/2 years then, started in the Spring of 33 AD (about the time of the Messiah's true anointing in the Holy of Holies in the heavenly realm) and ended in the Fall of 66 AD, which heralded the start of the 70th week and Jerusalem's final desolation, amounting to the "Great Tribulation" as foretold by Jesus in the "Olivet Discourses". I totally agree that the Israel of today is a sham. – Olde English Oct 28 '20 at 3:24
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During Jesus' ministry, his 12 Apostles hung on his every word and were seemingly under his divine protection. When Jesus was crucified, in 33 AD they were very much on their own but with a mission - Matthias replaced Judas and the Apostle Paul was added after the stoning of Stephen - In embarking on their Great Com-mission, given to them by the resurrected Jesus, they were to spread the gospel of Jesus and therefore Christianity, throughout all the known nations, converting, baptizing and often healing as they went, encountering a great deal of adversity on their many travels. For some this period of witnessing would last for 33 and one half years, from the Spring of 33 AD, until the Fall of 66 AD....when all events, to all intents and purposes, were completed. All but John would suffer martyrdom, during this time. Their power, once great, was of course shattered. The 1260 days, preceded their ministry and amounted to the 3 and one half years of Jesus' actual ministry.

This is my interpretation anyway. I look forward to reading any other interpretations. Maybe I can be convinced otherwise, although I have some doubt about that, but give it your best shot.

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  • Three and an half ... time, times and half a time ... 1260 days ... 42 months. From John's visionary revelation of Jesus Christ it would appear that all of these refer to the Church Age, spanning the whole period from the ascension of Jesus Christ to the end of time and his second appearing. It is only then that 'all things' are 'completed'. – Nigel J May 31 '20 at 3:07
  • @Nigel J - I respectfully have to disagree. While the phrase ...time, times and half a time... and it's various derivatives can not only mean 1260 days, but also 1260 years, never should it be meant to mean more than 1260 years and the idea that at least one or more of these derivatives cannot possibly equal 1260 days literally, I find to be preposterous. I am astounded by your post, especially as it comes from such a learned mind as I perceive you to have. In fact I find myself feeling insulted by your comment. Also, there are various completions of "all events/things" in the bible narrative. – Olde English May 31 '20 at 10:03
  • No insult intended. It is an established interpretation. Prophetic imagery is given to us which is not to be taken literally. It is given that we might see spiritual connections and allusions in a framework of context held in the imagination through communicated language. – Nigel J May 31 '20 at 16:27
  • @Nigel J - I've been studying all things spiritual for over 30 years and have never come to believe that all derivatives of the 1260 days have an "established interpretation". The "Trinity" concept, much more so, has been an "established interpretation" for 1700 years, but that still does not establish it's authenticity. A lot of prophetic imagery should not be taken literally but not necessarily all. Finally, – Olde English May 31 '20 at 17:34
  • @Nigel J - going on from Finally, ....with regard to the, so called, Church Age: I am of the consideration that such imagery does not benefit anyone when it comes to interpretation and understanding of all things prophetic. – Olde English May 31 '20 at 17:51

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