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If they are related, what is the warning and message to us in "pilgrims journey?

Text:

2 Tim. 2: 12 -if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;

Matt. 10:33- but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.(also Mk 8:38; Lk 9:26; 12:9]

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Matt. 10:

33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

In terms of first-order logic: If M denies Jesus, Jesus will deny M, where M is a person.

2 Tim. 2:

12b if we deny him, he also will deny us;

In terms of first-order logic: If M denies Jesus, Jesus will deny M.

2 Timothy 2:12 and Jesus's Word in Mat. 10:33 are related?

Yes.

When is that "will deny" to occur?

At the last day, John 6:

40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

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It is very much completely aligned with God’s plan. That is exactly what is said in John 3:18 implicitly- “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.” John‬ ‭3:18‬ ‭NIV‬‬.

That is aligned with what Paul says in Romans 10:8 - “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Romans‬ ‭10:9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

If we do not believe in our heart, we cannot confess. If we do not believe but confess Christ as Lord, we lie. The Lord looks at the heart . ““I the Lord search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.”” Jeremiah‬ ‭17:10‬ ‭NIV‬‬ and also to Samuel

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  • 2 Tim. 2:12, "if we" in the verse, who Paul is refering to, in the verse? Two different "we?
    – Sam
    May 14 '20 at 1:56
  • Does context- 2 Tim 2:1-13 indicate the referent "we" is Paul and Timothy?
    – Sam
    May 14 '20 at 13:57
  • Welcome to BHSE, Isaac! Make sure you take our tour (see below left) to familiarize yourself with this site. hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/tour –
    – sara
    May 17 '20 at 9:00
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2 Timothy 2:12 and Jesus's Word in Mat. 10:33 are related? When is that “will deny” to occur?

When is that “will deny” to occur?

“Immediately after the tribulation "(Matthew 24:29-31 NKJV)

In the parable of the sheep and the goats, Jesus pointed to a time for him to act in a special capacity: "The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations"

Matthew 24:29-31 NKJV (Compare Mark 13:26, 27; Luke 21:27)

The Coming of the Son of Man.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus explains: He will sit on the throne of His glory and will separate humankind into sheep and goats. Why?

Matthew 25:31-33 NKJV

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left."

Regarding the sheep, separated to the right side, the favored side, Jesus says:

Matthew 25:34 NKJV

34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: "

Why do the sheep receive the King’s favor? Notice that the sheep are judged not by what they do directly to Jesus but by what they do indirectly to the "the least of these My brethren."

Matthew 25:35,36, 40,46 NKJV

35 For I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, in as much as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The words "the goats" and "the sheep " in bold added to the verse by me.

And these (the goats) will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous (the sheep) into eternal life.”

Notes: For the Celestial phenomena at (Verse 24:29): "of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Was Jesus referring to supernatural signs in the heavens ?, Perhaps

Compare: Isaiah 13:9-11, Luke 21:25-26 Joel 2:1,30,31 Zephaniah 1:17 and Revelation 6:15-17

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A Christian, a follower of the Lord, remains free and since that is so, there always looms a possibility of abuse of this freedom. Not only ordinary Christians, but so many a devoted asketic who left the world for following Christ have fallen due to various bodily (sex, gluttony etc.) or spiritual (pride, self-conceit etc.) temptations.

Thus, a Christian can also due to frequent submission to sin, start loving the world more than Christ (2 Tim. 4:10), will make the beautiful plant of salvation wither due to not deepening roots, and when a time of tribulation comes, when he must confess the Lord, he will falter and deny the Lord (cf. Luke 8:13). The outcome will be that, out of shame for that, if he will not be enough humble and courageous to confess and repent, he will start hating Christ and become His enemy. This is a condition far worse than condition of even unbelievers, for "to whom much is given, from him much will be required" (Luke 12:48).

This is the meaning of the "I will also deny him" words, for the Lord does not to deny anybody, even His enemies whom He loves, but when we hate Him, we "deny" ourselves from Him, feeling not comfortable any more in His presence, and what can be more miserable, for our souls are so dignified, that true, ontological consolation for them can only be God, as Augustine says: "restless we are until we rest in Thee".

When this "deny" will occur? Already here in this life it continuously occurs when we love world more than Christ and feel more comfortable watching pornography than staying in Church and praying or reading the Scripture; and this "deny" will continue in all eternity unless we repent.

I haven't read the "Pilgrim's Journey", but if it claims that a Christian is necessarily saved after becoming a Christian and believing in Christ, then this is a wrong idea that Christianity abolishes freedom in humans, or that that freedom is only an illusory thing, in any case it is wrong and this wrongness in theological matters is called "heresy".

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