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Jeremiah 19:5 (ESV);

  1. and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind--

Here are three thoughts on this verse:

  1. If "it" was the burning of their sons for burnt offerings to Baal, then God would have known about it before creation began.

  2. If "it" is that this sacrificing was against God's law as revealed to the Israelites then that too God in His omniscience would have in His mind.

  3. If "it" means, "it did not enter my mind to command them to do this", and in unspoken parenthesis [but that did not stop me, as preeminent in all things, from getting Satan to put it in their minds], then is the E.S.V. grammar of this verse being pulled around too far to accommodate this possibility?

    What did not enter God's mind?

  • @salah Although I approved your edit I now realise I do not understand your [cf151] or where you get this translation from. – C. Stroud Mar 16 at 13:01
  • it is KJV, I suggest you better replace KJV by ESV. – salah Mar 16 at 13:12
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I think it is best to look at the idea/context, rather than strictly the words themselves, as it seems that this is one of those passages where the Hebrew does not translate easily into English.

Here is the Darby version, which I find best translates:

and they have built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons in the fire as burnt-offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it up into my mind.

It seems that God is saying that such a thing was so against His nature, so opposite from what He might decree or desire of the Israelites, that it did not "come up into His mind" -- the idea wasn't even something that dwelt in His (perfect, holy, righteous) mind. God is emphasizing how loathful and against His nature doing such a thing was by first comparing it to a commandment, then speech, and then to a thought (all in decreasing significance, and yet this thing was so contrary to God that it did not even deserve to be a thought of His).

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Peace.

Here’s a possible 4th alternative to consider: “the” Baal itself is the thing (“it”) which did not come up into God’s mind for men to keep and place in the high places.

He did not command it (the Baal) nor spoke it. The Baal was not commanded nor spoken from God nor did it come up to His mind.

Jeremiah 19:5 KJV (5) They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

The Baal (meaning “master, lord, husband”) today speaks of the handwriting of ordinances that men have written for others to serve and worship (putting them in “high places” of the churches).

God did not command the teachings and commandments of men (who in their fleshly minds came up with them). These men did not have the Mind….the Head…when they put their instructions and commandments in writings so that others who come after them would also keep them thereby burning the "sons" who perish in the wrath of God which is revealed from Heaven.

Many go and willingly subject themselves to the handwriting of man’s dogmas of their particular church. Their “husband” (the Baal) is the handwriting that they are “married” to….whose only desire is to keep it and let it rule over them in their lives. They think that they are serving and worshipping God by the keeping of the instructions and commandments of men. But these things lead to death as many are perishing from this earth by the keeping of them.

“Dogma” in ancient Greek means those things which “one thinks is true” in one’s own mind…and not according to the mind of God. It may seem right to keep these things in our lives but in the end are the ways of death.

Many go to a particular church which has the particular handwriting of dogmas that they think is true and willingly prostrate themselves to the handwriting as they serve and worship it….supposing they are worshipping God.

They judge others who do not keep their handwriting and are thereby unknowingly serving the sin from the beginning as they think themselves as “gods” ….that is, judges….for God supposedly judging others for Him in His authority (name). This keeps the wrath of God upon them for the serving of the sin until they perish from this earth.

As Jesus said, in vain do they worship God, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men (all contained in their handwritings placed in the high places where they are served and worshipped in the churches of fleshly-minded men who do not hold the Head…the Mind of Christ).

Matthew 15:8-9 KJV (8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. (9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

God did not command nor speak these handwritings of men….their church tenets of faith, their church constitutions, their statements, etc).

They have come about by men who in their puffed minds thought they saw something and put these things in written form to serve and worship and placed them in the high places of their churches for those after them to also keep. They are the traditions (transmissions) of men that are handed down from one generation to another...the church fathers to the "sons".

They came about by fleshly-minded men who do not hold the Head (the Baal…the handwriting….did not come up into the mind of God).

They do not have His mind (nor did it come up into His mind). “They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto (THE) Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind.”

The handwriting of men (the dogmas of what one thinks is right within his own mind) do not save us. They are against us and contrary to us. They behave like the stone at the grave which needs rolled away….taken out of the way.

Colossians 2:13-23 KJV (13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The handwriting of man’s dogmas occupies the high places within the churches of men. They are the “principalities and powers” that many willingly subject themselves to because they think in their own minds that these handwritings are right…and they serve and worship them.

(15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. (16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

“Angels” = messengers. These handwritings of the church scribes are “messengers” of which many willingly subject themselves to as they listen to the preaching of those who do not hold the Head as these assemblages of the commandments of men did not come up into God’s mind nor did He command nor did He speak them for us to keep. They are transmitted from one generation to another.

Let no man beguile you of your reward : the eternal life of Jesus the true Christ in this earth. His eternal life is being prevented from appearing in those who listen to those who teach and serve their handwritings that they thought they “saw” by their puffed up fleshly minds.

(18) Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Not holding the Head….as these things do not come up into His mind. The fleshly-minded man is not feeding anyone by the preaching of the church instructions and commandments of men that all are perishing by the using of them.

(19) And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

Why be subject to church dogmas that that are written by fleshly-minded men who do not have the Mind….the Head…as these things did not come up in the mind of God?

The “rudiments” …the elements, the fundamentals, the principles…are the fundamental written church doctrines and commandments which are patterned after the world’s structured handwritings (their constitutions, etc).

They are the fundamentals….“tenets, statements, constitutions, by-laws, etc” of the churches….that are placed high up within them where people serve and worship them. Many “marry” them as these things....these writings of men... rule over them.

(20) Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Yet, all are perishing with the using up of them. The commandments and instructions of men do not do anything to give the eternal life of Jesus to our mortal bodies in this earth as they only bring upon us the wrath of God (the fire) as we perish from this earth under His judgment. They do nothing for the mortal body as all perish from off this earth showing us that their church "works" do not save anyone.

The keeping of the handwritings of dogmas is "will worship" as many think that they are right in their own minds to keep them....but they are the ways of death in the end. The fruit of those things is death.

(21) (Touch not; taste not; handle not; (22) Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? (23) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

The “sons” of the church fathers are burned in the fire unto the Baal as these transmissions (the handwritings of dogmas) continue as they are passed down from one generation to another.

The transmissions of the church fathers…. their handwritings of ordinances…do not save anyone as many are suffering loss of the mortal bodies without the life of Jesus being made manifest in the mortal flesh. They themselves are saved but as through the fire.

The handwritings are empty things to keep. We have received from the transmission of the church "fathers" as these things are passed down from one generation to another. They do nothing good for the mortal flesh and destroy our mortal bodies through they using of them.

1 Peter 1:17-19 KJV (17) And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: (18) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; (19) But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

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  • When God empowers Satan as in Job 1:12 He indirectly controls. If in a situation it does not cross His mind to directly control it might be because it suits His purpose [crosses His mind] to indirectly control. You mention many Biblical truths but don't, I think, deal with the Kernel. -1 – C. Stroud Mar 23 at 18:31

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