Regarding Psalm 22:16
By Psalm 22:16, I mean "Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet."
(v17 in the jewish verse numbering) "For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet."
https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2622.htm (has hebrew and english though they've put english punctuation marks into the hebrew)
https://mechon-mamre.org/c/ct/c2622.htm (has the hebrew without english punctuation marks thrown into the hebrew, and with trope/cantillation marks)
(i'm not concerned about kaari/karu. lion or pierced/dug..or what is written in the nahal hever fragment, i'm just looking at where the Hebrew of psalms 22:16 is in 4Q88)
Is Psalms 22:16 missing from Qumran Dead Sea Scroll 4Q88? It seems to me it isn't but then can anybody circle or graphically point at the Hebrew of it on the fragment?
(like tovia singer graphically points to the hebrew of the verse on the nahal hever fragment as shown in an image later).
"Unfortunately, the Psalms Scroll found at Qumran did not include 22:16 because the manuscript was damaged at the very place where it would have appeared."
And the author of that link mentions that (while it's not in fragments from qumran, it's in the fragments from Nahal Hever/Chever (Hebrew: נחל חבר), and i've seen a picture of exactly where, so i'm not asking about that(nahal hever), i'm asking purely regarding the fragments of qumran scrolls)
(added note- I just noticed, that while that link then mentions about nahal hever, later in the article, it goes on to say that there is a scrap from the DSS 4Q88 f1-2 that has words from the verse. "In fact, another scrap from the Dead Sea Scrolls, 4Q88 f1-2, 2:24–25, gives evidence that כרה was originally known by the scribes at Qumran. While the fragment is small and damaged, it has been transcribed by Ulrich3 as containing this line, ורגלי ידי כרו” ,they pierced (כרה (my hands and my feet.” While the כ and ר of כרו are marked as difficult to read (see the transcription above in the boxed graphic), it is clear that no letter is interposed between them....")
Note- i'm not asking about the whole pierced/dug, vs like a lion thing. Just interested in what's the hebrew that it has for that verse on the fragments, pointed to so I see it there.
If I look at the site dssenglish
http://dssenglishbible.com/scroll4Q88.htm (Note, 4Q88 is aka 4Q88 Psalmsf, and that link has an option to flick through the translated scroll/fragments, by clicking "previous scroll" or next scroll, so e.g. seeing 4Q89 aka 4Q89 Psalms g, or 4Q87 aka 4Q87 Psalms e).
That link also at the side, describes for when it shows text in Black, Blue, Green, Struck through, or as Red. If a word is present but unreadable then it's in blue. And if a word is not present then it's in italics. And spelling differences that don't affect the meaning, are in green.
it shows Psalm 22:16 translated from 4Q88 aka 4Q88 Psalmsf (aka 4QPsf)
And It also shows the verse translated from the nahal chever fragments.
So judging by that link, it looks like it's in both, nahal hever(which btw is technically not considered to be of the dead sea scrolls) and 4Q88(which is of the dead sea scrolls). So not missing in those.
Though a tiny bit of the verse "for" and "have surrounded me" is written in italics to say that those words are not in the fragment(i don't know if that means that's cos the words are unclear or outside of it but doesn't matter). The rest of the verse is, according to dss english website. Since the rest of the verse isn't italicised.
Even putting that link aside, there's no question that the verse is in the nahal chever fragments.
as e.g. there's this image from rabbi tovia singer
That is a useful image from tovia singer re Nachal Hever, because it points to the unclear hebrew on the fragment and shows it in clear hebrew letters. So I can see on the Nahal Hever fragment where the words/letters are.
I don't have that for 4Q88 though.
And so I can't tell properly if the verse is in the Qumran fragments too, without an image like that. So i'd like it pointed out to me in that kind of image, where the verse is in 4Q88
The dssenglish site suggests that it is in the qumran fragments in 4Q88 (From what I understand, 4Q means fourth qumran cave)
But that pdf I linked to says it is not in qumran scrolls. (note- the pdf was misleading, as the pdf later stated - correctly - that parts of it is). Still, i'd like to see the hebrew of the verse pointed to on the fragments.
This link https://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/explore-the-archive/manuscript/4Q88-1 shows 4Q88 fragments, but I can't tell where if anywhere Psalms 22:16 would be.
This link http://bhebrew.biblicalhumanities.org/viewtopic.php?t=777 mentions a book by ulrich on the qumran fragments
should be there.
As this link does
The image from ulrich suggests it's in 4QPsf (which is aka 4Q88), fragments 1 and 2 (as does the torahresource dot com link that references him)
wikipedia also shows 4QPsf aka 4Q88, covering the verse
I see this link that shows manuscript fragments
But as fragments don't have verse numbers I can't find it, whether it's there or not, or how much of v16 is there.
That might even suggest it's specifically fragment two, as it says f2, but I can't see what is what.
I understand that dots above the letters mean that the letters are unclear in the manuscript, but I can't determine where the unclear letters i'm looking for are. For the scroll of isaiah the .org.il site have some digital effects where you hover over a scroll and it shows chapter and verse, but they haven't done it for psalms.
I don't know if it is on fragment two, but this is fragment two, but looking at the link I mentioned, that shows all fragments
They let you zoom in on it on that website, it shows two images for fragment 2.
But as for where on that fragment the verse is or if it's on a different qumran fragment, I don't know?
I notice this is actually a very big subject if there are many fragments involved.
There's "52 results" pertaining to 4Q88 aka 4Q Ps f
DSS English website shows that it has a few verses from Psalm 22, and quite a bit from Psalms 107 and 109
Date: 100-25 B.C.
Location: Qumran Cave 4
Contents: Psalms 22:13-16 (Hebrew 22:14-17); 107:2-5, 8-16, 18-19, 22-30, 35-42, 109:4-7, 24-28, followed by non-canonical Psalms “Apostrophe to Zion,” “Eschatological Hymn” and “Apostrophe to Judah”
Main ones of 4Q88 Psf are on plates 436 and 1149.
And the main ones are two of the fragments on Plate 436 fragments 2 and 3 look like the biggest on that plate.
And on Plate 1149 Fragments 3 and 4 look like the biggest
There's an image showing the whole of plate 436, and an image showing the whole of plate 1149. Thten an image for each of the 10 fragments on those plates, plus an infrared of it. So that's 1+1+20+20=42.
The remaining 10 images are just showing lots of plates and cover things other than psalms 22, in addition to psalm 22.
Ulrich doesn't mention which plate he used re when he says fragments 1 and 2, maybe Plate 1149 (since an answer mentions plate 1149 and highlighted something possibly of the verse on it). Maybe the other fragments don't have Psalms 22:17.
that does simplify things if the only fragments of 4Q88 Psf that have Psalms 22:17 on them are Plate 1149 fragments 1 and 2.