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What is the scriptural basis for the teaching that the 7th Trumpet introduces and contains the 7 bowls of wrath? The Bible doesn't specifically say so. Revelation 10:7 says, "In the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished. . .". Because of the phrase "in the days of", some people understand this verse to mean that the 7th Trumpet will sound over a prolonged period of time during which all 7 bowl judgments will play out. But we often ignore the next phrase that says "when he shall begin to sound" which actually qualifies the first phrase. Doesn't this second phrase indicate that the mystery of God will be finished the moment the 7th Trumpet begins to sound rather than the mystery being completed over a prolonged period of time? It seems to me that "in the days of" does not necessarily imply a prolonged period of time; it may mean that the 7th Trumpet was not going to immediately the statement was made in chapter 10 but at a later time.

Secondly, what constitutes the third woe judgment?

It appears the position one takes on the above questions depends on where one places the ministry of the Two Witnesses. The 7th Trumpet sounds in Revelation 11:15 shortly after the resurrection and ascension of the Two Witnesses. So, if you believe the ministry of the Two Witnesses occurs in the first half of the Tribulation, then you're likely to place the sounding of the 7th Trumpet at mid-Tribulation whereas if you think the Two Witnesses minister in the second half of the Tribulation, you will place the sounding of the 7th Trumpet on the very last day of the Tribulation. Now, if you believe the Two Witnesses minister in the second half of the Tribulation and that the 7th Trumpet sounds on the final day of the Tribulation as I do, it becomes difficult to sustain the view that the 7th Trumpet contains the 7 bowls of wrath for the obvious reason that there will be no time for all 7 bowl judgments to play out if the 7th Trumpet sounds on the final day of the Tribulation, the same day that Jesus returns to earth in glory. This is because all 7 bowl judgments will likely require at least a couple of weeks to be accomplished, rather than a single day.

I look forward to further insights on these issues.

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The first assumption that I question here is the idea of the tribulation being 7 years in length. There is NO Biblical foundation for that theory. Every time a time period is mentioned it is always some version of 3-1/2 years. Massive confusion and contradictions arise when you try to separate things into two different 3-1/2 year periods. You will eventually stumble over yourself and the Bible if you do. The basis for a 7 year tribulation arises from falsely interpreting Daniel's 70 weeks. There is way too much information to summarize here (but I will try). As a side note, I will just point out that there is NO other place in Scripture to confirm that assumption of a 7 year tribulation.

The end of the 69th week can be pinpointed to the start of Jesus' ministry by using a JEWISH calendar and starting from 458BC (Ezra 7:25 - King's decree allowing the Jews to self-govern and be recognized as a "city" within the kingdom). All other starting points will produce an end year result that is either too early or too late when examining the rest of the Bible evidence given to us as outlined below. This brings us to 27AD which is squarely within the allowable time frame to account for a birth year of around 2 or 3BC, a baptism in the 15th year of Tiberius (he actually became co-caesar in the summer of 13ad), a 3-1/2 year ministry for Jesus (John mentioned Him entering Jerusalem for passover on three separate occassions- John 2:13, 6:4, 12:1), and the cross occurring 3 + years later during Pilate's rule (26-36AD), and the year of the cross 30ad (Nissan 14 - Wednesday allowing for Him to be in the grave for 3 days AND 3 NIGHTS).

Now, all that said, in addition to what is known about the "he" in Dan. 9:27 being Jesus and NOT the A/C, we can see that any sort of "gap" MUST be placed at the midpoint of the 70th week and NOT before. To your question then, it would justified to place the death and ascension of the two witnesses at the END of the (3-1/2 year) tribulation. Furthermore, what happens immediately after they rise? The 2nd coming (7th trumpet- Rev 11:15). Notice the earthquake which always seem to coincide with a resurrection of some sort. The "first resurrection" for Jewish people which will go into the promised 1000 year reign occurs a little later after the 7th trumpet. So, backing up a bit, the first "woe" can be tied to the 5th trumpet (start of the tribulation with the star falling from heaven - Satan and opening of the pit), the 2nd to the 6th (a third of mankind killed) and now the final to the 7th.

The Bowl judgments are said to only last a few weeks (I believe there is an extra 45 days - to be added to the 1150 days [Dan 8:13= 2300 "evenings and mornings" between the baptism and 'cleansing' sacrifice] which account for the first 3+ years of Jesus' ministry). The temple in heaven is opened but NO ONE is allowed in while the bowl judgments are rendered. Anyway, those rejecting Jesus are still rejecting Him even through these horrific events. So, the 7th trumpet is merely the signal that these things are about to happen and the duration of the actual "blast" (if there is to be a physical sound involved) seems irrelevant.

With all that, the simple answer is... The events that are tied to this trumpet blast will occur between the 2nd coming and start of the 1000 years.

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  • (+1) Hi John, welcome to BHSE. Please take the Site Tour when you get a chance, which explains more about how the StackExchange format works and the scope of good Questions and Answers on this site. This is a good first answer, but the 'flow' of it could be made clearer with better use of formatting, and provision of any supporting evidence for your claims where appropriate (though you've already got a good few verse references here). Have a great day. – Steve Taylor Feb 28 at 10:35
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Re Does the 7th trumpet really contain the 7 bowls of wrath? and what constitutes the third woe? It's simple.Firstly the "third woe" Revelation 11:14 "The second woe is past .and behold the third woe cometh quickly." Verse 18a says quote " And the nations were angry,---Here we see very briefly put that the seventh trumpet would be marked by the nations being angry.This century has that mark upon it.There has been continually wars,revolutions, riots.One could go on and on .Its as long as a piece a string. Verse 18a ( continued) "and thy wrath is come " -- This is the era when God's wrath will be poured out upon all evil. Verse 18b says quote "--and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. " It is also a time of judgement upon the earth to all who are destroyers.This would take in all evil systems of the world.Also people who destroy in a personal manner. Everything that is evil will be destroyed. Here is the third "woe". But it doesn't get better as seen in Verse 19b "- and there were lightnings and voices and thunderings and an earthquake and great hail. If this ain't a "woe", then nothing is. Also one should read REVELATION chapter 16 : 17 and 18 .Also 20 and 21 These verses tie in (dove-tail) exactly with what we have studied in chapter 11. Revelation 16:17 (again the third "woe") Same prophesy. Read REVELATION chapter 5 verse 1 note - "a book written within and on the backside,--" That is to say two books in one with many chapters running concurrently. Rev 16:17..And here we have the 7th vial/ bowl judgement. And a terrible one at that.(Woe). Revelation 16:17 a "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air--" The last vial of God's wrath is poured out and our attention is drawn to the fact that it is being poured out into the air.It is very significant because the whole emphasis of modern warfare is centred on the sky above: bombs,long range rockets,spies in the sky,paratroopers forces dropping from the sky and other air borne weapons of war .Are part of the scene today. The LORD showed John way back in AD 96 that the last battle of the ages would be focused on the air."It is done " verse 17. This is the last vial of the judgement of God. Note that the seventh trumpet contains if you like only one bowl/vial judgement as discussed here. The previous six bowl/vial judgements as with the previous six trumpets are all all "yesterday's fish & chips. Note : we in our day are living within "spitting distance " of the 7th trumpet/vial. BE ENCOURAGED as the Lord says in Revelation chaper 16 verse 15 " ---Blessed is he (and she) that watcheth, and keepeth his (her) garments. Remember that his "CHURCH" is not appointed to his wrath.See I Thessalonions 5:9 Lovely verse of comfort to all of us living in this "time of the end of this age. "For God hath not appointed us to wrath , but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." KJ Finish on Philippians 4:13 "I can do all thimgs through Christ which strengtheneth me." God Bless

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  • Hello dennis, welcome to BHSE, glad to have you with us. If you haven't already, please make sure to take our tour, to see how we are a little different from other sites you may know. Thanks! (hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/tour) – sara Oct 6 '19 at 7:09
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Well, Lord Jesus, we love You. Thank You You're the Son of God. You're God. The eternal life. You're also a man. The perfect human man Jesus. Our savior. The Lamb of God.

My view differs a little from yours, dear Carl. And so I hope I'll arrive at your question very quickly. I understand that the 7th seal is the Tribulation, the 3 1/2 years (time, times, and half a time; 42 months; 1260 days; last half of Daniel 9's last 'week') of the Great Tribulation. Based, firstly on the generally chronological sequence in Revelation (cf Rv 1:19. A break seems to transpire around 11:8-11), and then on this statement after the 6th seal:

"and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits upon the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" (6:16-17. Can you imagine---wrath of a lamb? That in itself strikes me).

Meaning that the first 6 seals are but prelude to the Tribulation. The 5th is 'but' a prayer of martyred saints in Hades (Paradise) beneath the earth. The 6th is 'merely' an earthquake, the first supernatural warning. The first four seals are world history since the Lion-Lamb ascended. Consistent with our Lord's description in Mt 24:1-14 (which I'll spare you the detail now). Which culminates then in the start of the 3 1/2 year Tribulation at 24:15 (cf Dan 9:24-27. It's the furthest thing from anything to be divided over, and near 'trivial,'---but nowhere in Scripture, including 9:27; Jer 30:7; and Rv 2:22; 7:14, do I see any hint, much less any statement, that the Tribulation takes seven years).

And so to answer your first question: Rv 8:1-2 "and when He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them."

Just as the seven trumpets comprise the 7th seal, elegantly, so apparently the seven bowls comprise the 7th trumpet: "and the Angel [Christ] whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up His right hand to heaven and swore...there shall be delay no longer, but in the days of the seventh...trumpet, then the mystery of God is finished......And the seventh angel trumpeted...And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple......And I saw...seven angels having seven plagues, the last; for in them the fury of God was finished...the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened, and the seven angels who had the seven plagues came out of the temple..." 10:5-7; 11:15, 19; 15:1, 5-8.

The seven bowls appear rapid-fire to me, even the 6th (16:12-16). Because it is 'but' a drying-up of the Euphrates for the eastern armies to roll up to Armageddon, which is not a bowl--it 'stands alone' as the last violence when Christ sets foot back on earth (16:14, 16; Mt 24:28; Dan 9:27; Zech 12; 14:1-15).

To try to answer your second question: Rv 8:13; 11:14-18 seems to me to say that the 3rd woe is the seven bowls, which are the 7th trumpet. One maybe can also include all the events of 11:18 within the 3rd woe.

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  • Whoa! This post could do with an edit to add a few extra paragraph breaks. Please also make each Bible verse quote it's own paragraph, and use ">" to format them as quotes. – curiousdannii Feb 27 at 3:11
  • ………………………....'k – Walter Smetana Feb 27 at 23:04
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What is the scriptural basis for the teaching that the 7th Trumpet introduces and contains the 7 bowls of wrath?

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here is clearly states God's wrath has come after the 7th trump sounds. Clearly God's wrath hadn't been coming for a long time before this or else the statement would be meaningless.

Another reason why the bowls/vials are part of the 7th trump:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

We see these same things when the last one is poured:

Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

The exact same things and both ending with a great hail storm:

Rev 11 7th trump "there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail"

Rev 16 "there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake" "a great hail out of heaven"

Same exact things because it's the same time frame. Keep in mind Revelation is not chronological in nature. It jumps around and re-visits the same time frame like here.

Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

Not to mention the plagues are last, coinciding with the last trump.

The vials are actually poured out in the time frame of these verses.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 11:19 *And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament:

Here is the same timing of those verses:

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Here we see the temple opened in both passages and both speaking of the wrath of God. 7th trump: and thy wrath is come Rev 15: vials full of the wrath of God. Same timeframe.

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