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And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. — John 1:14

I heard a Jehovah's Witness say that once the Word became flesh, it stopped being divine, because it became flesh. This sounds ridiculous, because one is essentially stating that God stopped being God. Nevertheless, what does it mean that the Word became flesh? In what manner did the Word become flesh, and how can one argue that the Word did not stop being the Word simply because it became flesh?

Thank you.

12 Answers 12

3

The New Testament goes to great lengths to assert two facts: Jesus became human but remained fully divine. Note that John 1:14 specifically says that Jesus (the Word here) became flesh which occurred at His incarnation in Bethlehem. Before this time, Jesus had always existed with God in heaven (John 1:1-3, 17:5, etc) but remained God (Matt 1:23).

That Jesus was fully human is inescapable:

  • Attended social functions (John 2:1-11)
  • Became angry & passionate (John 2:12-25)
  • Nicodemus saw Him as a man (John 3:1-21)
  • Tired, hungry & thirsty (John 4:1-42)
  • Jesus referred to Himself as a man (John 8:40)
  • Jewish leaders definitely saw Jesus as a man (John 10:33)
  • Wept with human passion (John 11:1-57)
  • Prays for divine strength (John 17)
  • Feels pain and bleeds (John 18:12ff)
  • Pilate said, "Behold the Man" (John 19:5)
  • Called, “The Son of Man” (John 1:51, 3:13, 5:27, 6:27, 53, 62, 8:28, 9:35, 12:23, 34, 13:31)
  • Dies (John 19:17-42), etc, etc.
  • Jesus took the "form" of a human, Phil 2:5-8
  • In fact, the NT also says that anyone who says that Jesus was not human is "antichrist" 1 John 4:3, 4, 2 John 7.

However, Jesus remined fully divine.

  • John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. (Compare v14 where the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, thus identifying the Word as Jesus.)
  • John 1:18, “…but God the one and only who is at the Father’s side has made him known”
  • John 5:17, 18, “In his defence, Jesus said, ‘My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.’ For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was calling God his own Father, making him equal to God.” See also Luke 22:69-71.
  • John 20:28, “Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God.’”
  • Rom 9:5, “…Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.”
  • Phil 2:5-8, “…Jesus Christ: who, being in very nature God…”
  • Titus 2:13, “…our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.”
  • Heb 1:8, “About the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever’”.
  • 2 Peter 1:1, “…righteousness of our God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.”
  • Isa 9:6, “For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
  • Jesus also called himself "I Am" (Matt 14:27, Mark 6:50, Mark 13:6, Luke 21:8, Mark 14:62, Luke 22:70, John 4:26, 6:20, 8:24, 28, 58, 13:19, 18:5, 6, 8 - see original Greek for exact wording here.) Compare Ex 3:13-17.

Thus, the fact that Jesus was fully human does not prevent Him being fully divine. since divinity is eternal, Jesus was always divine but only became human at the incarnation, hence the wording in John 1:14. Ellicott comments as follows:

Man came to be a son of God, because the Son of God became man. They were not, as the Docetae of that time said, believers in an appearance. "The Word was made flesh." The term "flesh" expresses human nature as opposed to the divine, and material nature as opposed to the spiritual, and is for this reason used rather than "body," for there may be a purely spiritual body (see Note on 1Corinthians 15:40-44); and rather than "man," which is used in John 5:27; John 8:40, for of man the spiritual is the highest part. It is not the approach of the divine and human nature in the region of the spiritual which is common to both that strikes the writer with wonder, but that men should have power to become sons of God, and that the Word, of whose glory he has spoken in the earlier verses, should become flesh. (Comp. Philippians 2:6-8; 2Corinthians 8:9, Notes.)

2

It is important to first define "the WORD"

Yeshua (the WORD) frequently referenced the Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 5:17, 7:12, 11:13, 22;40, Luke 16:16, 24:44)

The Law (the Book of the Law) is the Torah.

The Torah is the WORD of Yahweh.

The Torah (the WORD of Yahweh) contains the Law of Moses (the Levitical Law) and the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments are also called the the Law of Yahweh, the Covenant of Yahweh, the Ten WORDS, and the Decalogue.

In Deuteronomy 4:13 & 10:4, and in Exodus 34:28, the Hebrew word, dabar, means literally WORDS; even though it is generally translated as Commandments.

The Hebrew phrase, `eser dabar, in these passages means literally, the Ten Words.

Exodus 34:28
28 He was there with Yahweh forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread, nor drank water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the COVENANT, the ten (`eser = ten) commandments (dabar = WORDS).

Deuteronomy 4:13
13 And he declared to you his COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the ten (`eser = ten) commandments (dabar = WORDS), and he wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:4
4 He wrote on the tablets, according to the first writing, the ten (`eser = ten) commandments (dabar = WORDS), which Yahweh spoke to you on the mountain out of the middle of the fire in the day of the assembly: and Yahweh gave them to me.

The Ten Commandments are often referred to as the Decalogue, meaning the Ten Words. When translated into Greek, `eser dabar is deca logoi. Deca means ten, and logoi means words. From this Greek phrase, we get the English transliteration, Decalogue.

The Ten WORDS were written in stone (implying permanence) by the hand of Yahweh (Exodus 31:18, Deuteronomy 9:10)

The Laws of Yahweh (the WORD) are everlasting Laws (Psalm 89:34, 105:7-8, 111:7-9, 119:160, Isaiah 24:5, 40:7, I Peter 1:25-25)

The WORD is the everlasting Law of Yahweh contained in the Torah, and includes the Ten Commandments (the Ten WORDS).

In what manner did the Word become flesh?

The Spirit of Yahweh (the Holy Spirit) overshadowed Mary and she conceived a Son. Holy Spirit gave Yeshua, the Son of Yahweh, into her care.

Luke 1:35
35 And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

Matthew 1:20
20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Yeshua is the Word of Yahweh (the Law of Yahweh, the Covenant of Yahweh) in the flesh.

The Word of Yahweh, through whom everything was made that has been made, became flesh and dwelt among us.

The WORD did not stop being the WORD when it became flesh!

Yeshua (who is the Law of Yahweh in the flesh) came to Earth to teach and to uphold the Law of Yahweh. He came to perfectly keep (fulfill) the Law. He came to fulfill the role of the Kinsman Redeemer, as required by the Law. When Yeshua returns, He will fulfill the judgment portion of the Law.

Without Yeshua's perfection in keeping the Law, He would not have been found worthy to open the Scroll sealed with Seven Seals, and thereby to Redeem the Elect.

Revelation 5:5-9 (ESV)
5 And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe > of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the SCROLL and its SEVEN SEALS.”
6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
7 And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne.
8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9 And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the SCROLL and to open its SEALS, for you were slain, and by your blood you RANSOMED (REDEEMED/PURCHASED) people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,

Yeshua is the fulfillment of every part of the Law.

In fulfilling the Law (perfectly keeping the Law), He did not abolish the Law.
The Law will not be abolished until both heaven and Earth pass away.

Matthew 5:17-19 (ESV)
17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have NOT come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly, I say to you, UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

What does Scripture say about the WORD (Yeshua)?

Both Psalm 19 & Psalm 119 refer to the WORD of Yahweh as being sweeter than honey.

The Towrah (the WORD) is perfect. It renews one's life and makes one wise. (Psalm 19:7) The judgments of Yahweh are reliable and righteous. (Psalm 19:9) They are more desirable than gold; they are sweeter than honey (dĕbash). (Psalm 19:10)

The WORD (dabar) of Yahweh will keep one's feet from the evil path. (Psalm 119:101) The WORD ('imrah; 'amar) of Yahweh is SWEETER than HONEY (dĕbash). (Psalm 119:103) The WORD (dabar) of Yahweh gives life. (Psalm 119:107)

Honey (dĕbash) symbolizes the WORD (dabar) of Yahweh, and represents choosing good.

Isaiah 7:14-15
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin will conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
15 He shall eat butter and HONEY (dĕbash) when he knows to refuse the evil, and CHOOSE the GOOD.

The Promised Land was a land flowing with milk and HONEY. (Exodus 3:8) HONEY symbolizes the WORD of Yahweh, the Ten Commandments.

Israel was meant to be a people that were wise and understanding in the sight of the surrounding nations. They were meant to share the Laws of Yahweh with mankind, who had forgotten them. Israel was meant to be a land flowing with milk and HONEY (the WORD).

Deuteronomy 4:5-8
5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and ordinances, even as Yahweh my God commanded me, that you should do so in the middle of the land where you go in to possess it.
6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, who shall hear all these statutes, and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.”
7 For what great nation is there, that has a god so near to them, as Yahweh our God is whenever we call on him?
8 What great nation is there, that has statutes and ordinances so righteous as all this law, which I set before you today?

During the Millennial Reign, many peoples shall go and say:

Isaiah 2:3
3 Come, let’s go up to the mountain of Yahweh, to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths. For out of Zion the Law shall go out, and Yahweh’s WORD from Jerusalem.

During the Millennial Reign, the land of Israel will truly be a land flowing with milk and HONEY (the WORD of Yahweh). Yeshua (the WORD) will flow from Jerusalem.

When Yahweh said that His WORD (dabar) is sweeter than HONEY (dĕbash), it was a play on words that is seen in Hebrew, but is lost in English translation.

The dabar of Yahweh is sweeter than dĕbash.

Manna tasted like HONEY. (Exodus:16:31) Manna was the BREAD out of HEAVEN. (John 6:32)

Yeshua is the TRUE BREAD out of HEAVEN. (John 6:32) Yeshua is the BREAD of LIFE. (John 6:48) Yeshua is the LIVING BREAD. (John 6:51)

The LIVING BREAD is the sweeter than HONEY WORD of Yahweh. Yeshua is the sweeter than HONEY WORD of Yahweh. (John 1:1)

Anyone who eats of the WORD, the LIVING BREAD, will LIVE FOREVER. (John 6:51)

The WORD of Yahweh is the Ten Commandments. (Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 4:13) The Covenant of Yahweh is the Ten Commandments. (Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 4:13) The WORD of Yahweh is the Covenant. (Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 4:13)

The WORD of Yahweh gives LIFE. (Psalm 119:107)

Yeshua is the WORD which has existed from the beginning. (John 1:1-2) Yeshua gives LIFE to the world. (John 6:33, John 10:10) Yeshua is the WORD which gives LIFE. (John 1:1-2, John 6:33, John 10:10)

Yeshua is the STONE which the builders rejected. (Psalm 118:22, Matthew 21:42, Acts 4:11, 1 Peter 2:7) Yeshua is the LIVING STONE. (1 Peter 2:4)

The WORD of Yahweh is LIVING and active. (Hebrews 4:12) Yeshua (the WORD of Yahweh) is LIVING and active. (Acts 1:3, Acts 14:15, Romans 14:9, Hebrews 10:31, 1 Peter 3:18, Revelation 1:18)

The WORD of Yahweh is the SWORD of the Spirit. (Ephesians 6:17) Yeshua will destroy His enemies with the SWORD that proceeds from His mouth. (Revelation 19:15) Yeshua will destroy the enemy with the WORD (the Law), which is the SWORD of the Spirit.

The WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of Yahweh is the Ten Commandments. (Deuteronomy 4:12-13) The WORD that was from the beginning is the Ten Commandments. (1 John 2:3-7) The WORD that was from the beginning is Yeshua! (John 1:1-2)

Yeshua is the WORD that became FLESH and LIVED among us. (John 1:14) The WORD, the Ten Commandments, the LAW, became FLESH and LIVED among us.

Yeshua did not come to abolish the Law. (Matthew 5:17) Yeshua is the fulfillment of the Law. (Matthew 5:17) Yeshua is the embodiment of the Law. Yeshua is the Law (the WORD) in the flesh!

Anyone who Partakes of YESHUA ... the TRUE BREAD, the LIVING BREAD, the BREAD of LIFE, the WORD, the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS ... WILL LIVE FOREVER!

John 6:58
58 This is the bread which came down from heaven; not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread WILL LIVE FOREVER.

According to 1 Kings 3:12, King Solomon was the wisest man to ever live. King Solomon said:

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
13 After everything has been heard, this is the conclusion of the matter. Fear Yahweh, and keep His Commandments (His WORD); for this is the whole duty of man.
14 Yahweh will bring every work into judgment, with every hidden thing, whether it is good, or whether it is evil.

1

It is surely meant in the same sense as Philippians 2:5-11 (DRB):

For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. 8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. 9 For which cause God also hath exalted him, and hath given him a name which is above all names: 10 That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth: 11 And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

Clearly someone cannot begin a divine person ("being in the form of God"), and then change into a created person: a person is either created or uncreated. It must mean that which Christians have always held: that the Word assumed or took human nature upon Himself—"became flesh and dwelt among us." It must be meant in the same sense as "he became a lawyer;" not that said hypothetical person ceased to be a father, or a husband, or a human, but only a lawyer!

"Flesh" here very clearly refers to a humanity, not a lump of meat, the meaning yielded, then, is "became a man;" and the meaning of that is obvious: when one says, "God became a man," they cannot mean "God turned His nature into that of a man," because such is not human, or "God is not a man," but rather that "God took on ["he took"] a human nature for himself."

If the Word stopped being the Word, or stopped being divine, at the Incarnation thereof, then why would one read something like the following?

Revelation 1:17-18 (DRB) And when I had seen him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying: Fear not. I am the First and the Last, 18 And alive, and was dead, and behold I am living for ever and ever, and have the keys of death and of hell."

Or,

Revelation 2:8 (DRB) And to the angel of the church of Smyrna write: These things saith the First and the Last, who was dead, and is alive:

Clearly the First and the Last who became flesh never ceased to be who He was—Mary was and is indeed the Theotokos, since she bore ("eteken") "[meth hymon] o theos" (God [with us]).

  • Thanks. These are good points. – CMK Jul 2 '19 at 21:09
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This is an interesting question, and you may well get other responses that you find more acceptable, but in the meantime, here is how I see it.
The eternal life of the Word was manifest in the embryo of Jesus, becoming flesh, when Mary conceived by the Holy Ghost (Mat 1:18); and departed from the body of Jesus when he, "yielded up the ghost" (Mat 27:50), and Jesus' body died. The life of the Word was later restored to again be manifest in the body, giving life again to Jesus, when he was resurrected. I believe it is written somewhere that God both gives life and takes away life, thus Jesus briefly despaired, fearing that he had been forsaken, still being alive as the light of the new special day was about to appear, seconds before finally he did die, as he had been expecting, at the very last of the special 3 hour night darkness. The Word did not die, but the body of Jesus, in which the life of the Word had been manifest died, temporarily.

  • This is probably true. It's most likely what happens with human spirits in general. – CMK Jul 2 '19 at 21:10
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63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
-- John 6:63 (KJV)

Jesus makes it clear that "flesh" is nothing -- his flesh, our flesh, any and all flesh. It is the spirit that "quickeneth", i.e. that causes the flesh to move. The spirit that moved the bag of bones that bore the name Jesus, was God.

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
-- John 14:10 (KJV)

The bag of bones that bore the name Jesus is rhema (the means), not Logos (the substance). The voice of Jesus delivering the words of his Father is rhema, not Logos. The words written in the text of scripture are rhema, not Logos.

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
-- John 6:44 (KJV)

The Father created a bag of bones in the womb of Mary that would grow to deliver His words, words that would open the gates of paradise for any and all who would step through them.

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

  • 9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

  • 10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

  • 11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
    -- John 16:7-11 (KJV)

Jesus is redefining sin here. A man who breaks the Law of God sins against the flesh (his own and others'), but not believing in Jesus is a sin against the Spirit of God that longs to draw him to the Father.

All that is written and said, is rhema. May God be glorified!

  • Bag of bones" very funny 😄 – Faith Mendel Jan 5 at 14:36
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"I heard a Jehovah's Witness say that once the Word became flesh, it stopped being divine, because it became flesh."

That doctrine isn't specific to Jehovah's Witnesses. Many other denominations believe that between his conception and his resurrection, Jesus was fully human, without any divine nature that isn't also available to the rest of humanity. Those that don't realize this concept are missing a most significant aspect of Christianity.

The Bible is quite explicit about this.

Philippians 2:7 (NLT) says:

Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; he took the humble position of a slave and was born as a human being. ...

Many other translations say he "emptied himself" of his divine nature.

Consider Hebrews 2:14-18:

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

This is the central message of Christianity, that as human beings, with the help of God's spirit, we can resist and overcome temptation and sin. Jesus showed that it was possible, relying upon God, while no longer being God. God the Father was so sure that this was possible, that he allowed God the Son to risk his own eternal life.

Here's part of an answer I gave elsewhere:

What the being we know as the Son did, was to completely empty himself of all divinity and become a fully human being. As such, he was subject to the same temptations as anyone else, and would have become subject to the eternal death penalty if he ever sinned. Jesus "was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15).

This is a key point that many Christians fail to understand when they quote John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son".

If it were certain that as a human being Jesus would never sin, and that as a result he would be resurrected back to his fully divine spiritual self, then there really wasn't much of a sacrifice. And Jesus's temptation in the desert etc. would have been nothing more than symbolic rituals.

But this wasn't certain. The great sacrifice was that Jesus could have sinned; that had he done so, he would have died and stayed that way. He would no longer exist, and God the Father would be left alone for all eternity.

This is the central key to what Christianity is all about. The life of a spirit being that had existed for eternity was contingent upon the ability of a single human being to live a life without sin. That is what the Father's sacrifice was. That is what "so loved the world" really means.

  • The difficulty Jehovah's Witnesses face is that they believe Jesus was created by Jehovah, that he had not existed for eternity. – Lesley Jul 5 '19 at 16:59
  • Philippians 2:7 says that Christ gave up His divine privileges, not that He stopped being divine. Being born as a human being does not stop Him from having a divine nature. – CMK Jul 22 '19 at 21:53
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There were some great answers already. I would like to introduce an illustration which might help you as much as it has helped me to understand the distinction between the divinity and humanity of Christ.

—————————————

God is spirit, Jesus Himself attests to this being true. John 4:24

Jesus says that He had glory prior to Creation John 17:5. Therefore He existed prior to Creation. This includes all the heavenly hosts, they come after day 1 (probably day 2). So right there He is attesting to being God and therefore a spirit because God is spirit.

The problem therefore is how does a spirit manifest itself and interact with the material realm? One possibility is to materialize or to take on a body (another is Spirit to spirit but that can bypass the faculties of the brain and mind and might not be all that beneficial materially speaking 1 Corinthians 14:14). That’s partly why Jesus became the visible God in the form of the Angel of the Lord and the Father was the invisible God. (This is referencing the two powers).

What I’m saying is that the (material) body is not the identity of the individual. The anatomy or the biological machine that houses the soul and spirit is not the sum total of who a person is. A person is more than mere chemical components. While we can interact with the physical part of a person through the senses, we can also interact with the non physical part like the mind, which is immaterial but entirely real.

We humans begin from the point of conception but not just the biological body but also our spirit is created. Our names might be in a registry called the Book of Life but we only start to exist after we are conceived. Our spirits are no stocked up in some warehouse waiting to be dispensed.

“The oracle of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Thus declares the Lord, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:” ‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭12:1‬ ‭

The biggest difference with Jesus was that He IS and therefore the “He IS” (which is a spirit because He is God, and God is a spirit) is preexisting.

He didn’t need to be formed, He didn’t need a spirit to be formed, He just needed a body to inhabit.

The problem with the body is that it’s limiting. It’s very limiting. So it’s not that He lost His divinity, rather He chose to limit Himself voluntarily by taking on a limiting human body (non glorified body, non heavenly host-like or non ‘angel’-like body).

One limitation of the body is, you cannot be omnipresent.

Another is you cannot house all knowledge because even if all the knowledge is in the non physical mind or spirit, the processor or the brain cannot compute what it has not been taught. Jesus has to grow in knowledge while confined to a limiting body. Luke 2:52 (of course the glorified body has different properties 1 Corinthians 15:32)

So He relied on the Father to teach Him all things and was given the Spirit to do the things He saw the Father doing.

At any point He could have shed His body and escaped the “shell”. He had access to the Father to call legions of angels but He voluntarily showed restraint Matthew 26:53, He didn’t say He would call them Himself, rather He suppressed His omnipotency. He never stopped being God because the spirit that was in the biological machine was the second person of the Godhead Jesus, but He voluntarily chose not to access His divine attributes.

That’s simply all that Jesus was doing. He being a preexistent spirit took on a body. And that body had limitations right from the beginning. For one, it needed to grow and then be delivered via birth.

The reason some will argue that he stopped being divine might come from the fact that he chose voluntarily to suppress his divine attributes. He relied entirely on the Father and the Holy Spirit. He did not access his omnipresence, nor his omnipotency and nor his omniscience.

It also says that he took off his glory prior to even commencing the creation process. John 17:5 Meaning He stepped down voluntarily to take the role of the Angel of the Lord even before He started creating (some ~6950 years ago according to the Essene calendar)

So he appeared human, the thing that made him divine was that His Spirit was divine. Or put differently His Spirit was in fact God. Therefore God was inside a biological machine call a human body.

If nothing else this is encouraging to me, knowing that He was at no advantage and I’m at no disadvantage. If He could do it, then however He did it, I can too and He did it by not seeking His own will but only what the Father showed Him to do. Did nothing in His own strength but relied entirely on the strength of the Hole Spirit.

1

Peace.

We need to look at what is meant by the word “Word” first.

In (no definite article …“the”) Beginning (Jesus = Beginning) was the “Word”…that is, the "Saying".

The Saying (that is found in Jesus who is the Beginning) was toward God…that is, the Word pertains to God.

The Saying was God because God had said it and man lives by every word that comes out of the mouth of God....which comes out of the mouth of Jesus who testifies of God.

John 1:1-9 KJV (1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God.

The Saying pertains to God and says that "God is Light" and in Him is no darkness at all. This is why the rest of John chapter 1 speaks of the Light and the darkness that does not comprehend the Light. The Word = the Saying that “God is Light”.

(3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (5) And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. (6) There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. (7) The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. (8) He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. (9) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

This is the message….the Word ….the Saying….which was heard of Jesus (who is the "Beginning") and is declared unto us that “God is Light” and in Him is no darkness at all.

This “Saying” that “God is Light” is the Saying of Life…the “Word of Life”. It is the Saying about His divine nature of which are to be made partakers of as we are to also “walk in the Light” as He is in the Light.

1 John 1:5-7 KJV (5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

We do not the Truth (God is Light) when we walk in darkness. We do not then have fellowship with God in the Light when we are really walking in darkness.

(6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Doing the Truth is walking in the Light. The Word is “made flesh” when we do it…doing the Truth. It gives our mortal bodies…our mortal flesh…the life of Jesus...the Light of life.

(7) But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Again the Saying or Word of Life (God is Light) is heard from the Beginning. The “Beginning” is Jesus who is the Beginning of the creation of God. (Revelation 3:14)

1 John 1:1 KJV (1) That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

It is stated in Genesis 1:3 that God (Elohim) is Light. He does not "become" Light as He exists Light but we become the children of Light ("and there was light") by walking in that Light with Him. We walk with "I AM" Light.

Genesis 1:3 from Interlinear Scripture Analyzer 2:

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We shine as lights in the world when we do the Word. We hold forth the Word of life so that others may see the Light of God through us as the life of Jesus shines outwardly in our outer mortal flesh.

Philippians 2:14-16 KJV (14) Do all things without murmurings and disputings: (15) That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; (16) Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

The life of Jesus within us is made manifest (shines) in our outer mortal flesh for the darkness of this world to see. He gives His flesh for the life of this world.

2 Corinthians 4:10-11 KJV (10) Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. (11) For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

No man has seen God at any time but the only begotten Son declares Him through knowledge to us in this world. We are given the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 4:6-7) who speaks His knowledge and we show we know Him by doing His will.

John 1:18 KJV (18) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

If we can receive Him (receiving His testimony about God), then He gives us the power to become the sons of God to those who will believe on His name or authority in these matters.

John 1:12-14 KJV (12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The Saying is made flesh when we do His Word. We are doers and not just hearers. The eternal life of Jesus is then made manifest in our mortal bodies. It is not our life but His eternal life that is made manifest in our mortal flesh as the Saying is made flesh.

(14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus is the Light of the world as He gives the knowledge of God to us. He that follows Him shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of life.

When Jesus speaks to us from Heaven, we are to be found walking in the light and not darkness. We are to be found of Him doing His righteousness and not responding in hate, envy, strife, contentions towards the hearing of the knowledge of God…the Light.

John 8:12-13 KJV (12) Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

The Pharisees could not receive His testimony. “Pharisee” = a religious “separatist, to separate”.

In modern-day language, the church denominations of men (who separate themselves from one another) will not receive His testimony today. They will not believe that His testimony is true when they will hear it. This is why we must come out from among the unbelievers and be separate from them.

(13) The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

He that loves his brother is in the Light. He that hates his brother (who will speak the testimony of Jesus to their hearing ears) walks in darkness. The darkness blinds the eyes of his understanding as he cannot receive the testimony of Jesus who interprets the Scriptures to us. They will not enter in to understand.

1 John 2:7-11 KJV (7) Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. (8) Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. (9) He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. (10) He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. (11) But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Those who will not put on Jesus….the righteousness of God….the “wedding garment”…at the hearing of His testimony which are the faithful and true words of God, are cast into outer darkness where they will not be able to enter in to understand the mysteries of the kingdom.

The darkness of unbelief does not comprehend the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God and will not be able to if one does not work the righteousness of God...the putting of the garment of light... at the hearing of His voice from Heaven.

Many are called but few are chosen as many will hear and not believe or will be too wrapped up in their own church things or the things of this world that is perishing away as we speak.

Matthew 22:11-14 KJV (11) And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: (12) And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. (13) Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (14) For many are called, but few are chosen.

Yet, the “eyes of your understanding” shall be enlightened in those who will hear and believe and the Father of glory will give the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him. they will love those brothers sent out by Him to speak the true and faithful words of God and will be able to enter in to understand.

Ephesians 1:15-18 KJV (15) Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, (16) Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; (17) That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: (18) The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

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John chapter 1 verses 1-5 state that Jesus was with God in the beginning. He was the Word. To atone for the sin of mankind, an unblemished lamb had to be sacrificed. But first, He had to live as a man--to see and experience our trials, our joys, our sorrows and all that it took to be human. He had to show that it IS possible to live and not sin. Sin is rooted in the flesh. The flesh is that part of us that consistently gives in to our senses--gluttony, promiscuity, covetousness, lying, cheating, stealing, bearing false witness, hatred, etc. The Word, Jesus, was born of a virgin--the Word was then made flesh. It in no way diminished His divinity. Jesus lived among us displaying His great love for us and His great glory. Then He suffered, died, was buried, and got up from the grave to deliver us from damnation.

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Interestingly enough in Hebrew "good news" (besorah) and "flesh" (basar) share the same root: beth+sin+resh. The Word of God has became flesh to bring us the good news of the identity between the Son of God and the Son of man, that is the heavenly calling for us to be partakers of God's kingdom in the Mashiach.

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The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. (John 1:14)

What does it mean that the Word became flesh?

"the woman's seed will crush the head of the snake" (Gen 3:15).

The word of God became flesh when Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of the above, so called, "protoevangelium"; by offering his body as sacrifice for sin.

That is why, when Christ came into the world, he said to God, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings. But you have given me a body to offer. (Heb 10:5; NLT)

John the Baptist touched on this when he proclaimed about Jesus:

“Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29; NLT)

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The verb at J 1:14 is γίνομαι. The Lutheran Bauer-Danker-Arndt-Gingrich (BDAG) says it has the sense of “become something.” A verse in the same section is Mt 4:3, turning stones into loaves of bread.

I don't believe anyone would see what looks like a loaf of bread with a stone inside. To use this verse to prove a later doctrinal development, that of a dual nature of the Son just does not work.

BDAG γίνομαι 5. to experience a change in nature and so indicate entry into a new condition, become someth. a. w. nouns (Lamellae Aur. Orphicae ed. AOlivieri 1915, p. 16, 5 θεὸς ἐγένου ἐξ ἀνθρώπου [IV/III]; Arrian, Anab. 5, 26, 5; Sir 51:2; 1 Esdr 4:26; Wsd 8:2; 4 Macc 16:6; En 103:11; Tat. 19, τοῦ θανάτου καταφρονηταὶ γίνεσθε): ὅπως γένησθε υἱοὶ τοῦ πατρὸς ὑμῶν that you may become sons of your father Mt 5:45; ποιήσω ὑμᾶς γενέσθαι ἁλιεῖς ἀνθρώπων I will turn you into fishers of people Mk 1:17; a traitor Lk 6:16; friends 23:12 (cp. Jos., Ant. 11, 121); children of God J 1:12; children of light 12:36; a Christian Ac 26:29; apostle AcPlCor 2:4; a father Ro 4:18; a fool 1 Cor 3:18; a spectacle 4:9; a man, an adult 13:11 (Tob 1:9); a curse Gal 3:13. οὐχ ἑαυτὸν ἐδόξασεν γενηθῆναι ἀρχιερέα he did not exalt himself to be made high priest Hb 5:5; ἐγένετο ἀντὶ αὐτοῦ Σαμουήλ Samuel became (high priest) in his place GJs 10:2. W. double nom. (Ps.-Apollod., Epit. 3, 15 δράκων λίθος ἐγένετο; Quint. Smyrn. 12, 507; Bel 28; 4 Macc 18:7) οἱ λίθοι ἄρτοι γίνονται the stones turn into loaves Mt 4:3. **τὸ αἵμα αὐτοῦ λίθον γεγενημένον GJs 24:3. ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο **J 1:14 (the reverse PBerl 13044, col. III, 28ff [UWilcken, SBBerlAk 1923, 161f] τί ποιῶν ἄν τις γένοιτο θεός;). τὸ ὕδωρ γενήσεται πηγή 4:14. ἡ περιτομὴ ἀκροβυστία γέγονεν Ro 2:25. ἐγενόμην ἐγὼ διάκονος I became a courier Col 1:23 (cp. Herodian 2, 6, 8 ἀνὴρ ἔπαρχος γενόμενος).—Also γ. εἴς τι (Menand., Peric. 49f Kö. [169f S.] τὸ κακὸν εἰς ἀγαθὸν ῥέπει γινόμενον; 1 Km 4:9; Jdth 5:18; 1 Macc 2:11, 43; 3:58; En 19:2 al.; B-D-F §145, 1): ἐγένετο εἰς δένδρον it became a tree Lk 13:19; εἰς κεφαλὴν γωνίας Mt 21:42; Mk 12:10; Lk 20:17; Ac 4:11; 1 Pt 2:7 (all in ref. to Ps 117:22); εἰς χαρὰν γ. change (or, turn) into joy J16:20. εἰς οὐδέν come to nothing Ac 5:36. εἰς παγίδα Ro 11:9 (Ps 68:23); εἰς κενὸν γ. be done in vain 1 Th 3:5. εἰς ἄψινθον Rv 8:11. Cp. AcPl Ha 6, 6. Also w. γίνεσθαι omitted: εἰς κατάκριμα (sc. ἐγένετο τὸ κρίμα) Ro 5:18.

  • You just cited the following: "BDAG γίνομαι 5. to experience a change in nature and so indicate entry into a new condition, become someth." This means from John 1:1-3 that Jesus Christ who was the "Word/Logos was with God and was God. Vs2, He was in the beginning with God and at vs3, All things came into being by Him, and APART from Him (or without Him) nothing has came into being that has come into being." And this my friend is exactly what Philippians 2:5-8 is teaching. So, the one person of Jesus who already existed in the form of God, took on another form which was that of a human being. – Mr. Bond Jan 4 at 23:38
  • @Mr.Bond If the text said the Word took on another form, you would be cooking with gas! But it says that the Word became flesh just as the stone becomes bread. The stone did not take on bread and add it to stone. The word γίνομαι just does not allow for that interpretation. – Thomas Pearne Jan 4 at 23:45
  • John 1:1 clearly says Jesus was with God and is God. At John 1:14 it says the Word/Logos became flesh/human being. At John 1:4 it says, "In Him/Jesus Christ was life, and the life was the light of men." then at John 1:15, John the Baptist bore witness of Jesus Christ. In fact he says, "This was He of whom I said, He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for (or because) He existed before me. How can that be since John the Baptist was born before Jesus? So again, Jesus who was already God takes the form of a human being. This is not hard to understand. Why can't God became a man? – Mr. Bond Jan 5 at 0:03
  • No, John 1:1 does not say "Jesus is God." It says in the third clause, θεός ην ο λόγος. Jesus was not born until the 1st century. – Thomas Pearne Jan 5 at 1:45
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    You haven't explained what it actually means. – curiousdannii Jan 19 at 3:40

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