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Marcion says that Moses and The Jewish writings should not be relied upon and does not give a clear view of God The Father whom Jesus Christ revealed to the world.

Christ says, that no one knew Him except The Father (until The Father sent Him of course), and Christ also says that no one knew The Father until He revealed Him:

Luke 10:22
"All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."

Here is who Jesus Christ said God The Father is. It's different from The Old Testament view:

Luke 6:35-38
"...Ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over..."

  • You should find a quote to support what you contend Marcion said. – enegue May 10 at 22:58
  • How is Luke 6 "different from The Old Testament view"? – Ray Butterworth May 11 at 1:36
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Jesus clearly did not agree with the idea that 'Moses and the Jewish writings should not be relied upon'.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. John 5:46 KJV.

Jesus clearly states that Moses' writings were so reliable that believing them would lead to believing in Christ, himself. For Moses wrote of Christ ... reliably.

Also, the parable Jesus spoke, concerning Lazarus and the rich man, concludes with Jesus quoting the words of Abraham (as conveyed in parable) :

If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16:31 KJV.

So reliable were the writings of Moses that if one does not receive them one will, inevitably, also reject the true report of Jesus' resurrection.


Until the Father sent the Son, the Father was unrevealed, personally. It is the Son who reveals the Father. Until then, faith was still vibrant in the fathers of the faith. David knew The LORD and he also knew whom he called 'My Lord'.

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Psalm 110:1.

But that personal faith was not - yet - in the light of full revelation. Intuitively, spiritually, David knew God and David was aware of the persons of the Father and the Son. But not - yet - in full understanding.

But it was true in David, that One revealed Another, as saith the Son of God when he came, incarnate.

  • Just because they wrote some inspired things that doesn't mean that they were 100% perfect, or actually understood The True Nature of God. Only Jesus is said to be perfect. Only Jesus is said to Truly Reveal The Father (Luke 10:22). – God_Is_Love May 10 at 22:37
  • @God_Is_Love Indeed. I think I conveyed that in my answer. – Nigel J May 10 at 22:38
  • Even if David and Moses knew God in some way, they didn't truly understand Him. Only Christ truly knows and reveals God do only Christ's Teachings should be trusted. Moses taught wars and violence. He didn't know Christ who said turn the other cheek and love enemies. – God_Is_Love May 10 at 23:34
  • @God_Is_Love when it says all Scripture is God breathe, it’s referring to the OT. Also Moses didn’t teach war and violence, God instructed Israel to destroy the Canaanite nations, especially those of Nephilim heritage. God was required to destroy all the corrupted genetics in the world at the flood. He needed to make sure this irredeemable seed did not contaminate the human race a second time. I sense an incomplete study on the OT and a strong bias toward the NT. Could you point to one part of the OT that is not inspired (hence your comment SOME inspired things)? – Autodidact May 11 at 2:02
  • @God_Is_Love So the OT God isn't the same as the NT God because He's depicted as "less loving?" Was fighting against the strongholds of Satan in the OT times something that made God look bad? This train of thought sounds familiar. You really need to read the Parable of the Talents/Minas and Revelation. Loving enemies doesn't equate to completely excluding the necessity of divine judgement. There's a time for peace and a time for war. – AngelusVastator May 11 at 12:43
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According to Wikipedia:

Study of the Hebrew scriptures, along with received writings circulating in the nascent Church, led Marcion to conclude that many of the teachings of Jesus were incompatible with the actions of Yahweh, the belligerent god of the Hebrew Bible. Marcion responded by developing a ditheistic system of belief around the year 144.[9] This notion of two gods—a higher transcendent one and a lower world creator and ruler—allowed Marcion to reconcile his perceived contradictions between Christian Old Covenant theology and the Gospel message proclaimed by the New Testament.

In contrast to other leaders of the nascent Christian Church, however, Marcion declared that Christianity was in complete discontinuity with Judaism and entirely opposed to the Tanakh. Marcion did not claim that the Jewish scriptures were false. Instead, he asserted that they were to be read in an absolutely literal manner, thereby developing an understanding that Yahweh was not the same god spoken of by Jesus. For example, Marcion argued that the Genesis account of Yahweh walking through the Garden of Eden asking where Adam was, had proved Yahweh inhabited a physical body and was without universal knowledge, attributes wholly incompatible with the Heavenly Father professed by Jesus.

According to Marcion, the god of the Old Testament, whom he called the Demiurge, the creator of the material universe, is a jealous tribal deity of the Jews, whose law represents legalistic reciprocal justice and who punishes mankind for its sins through suffering and deathconcept

He seems to have totally overlooked the Biblical teaching that Jesus was in fact the same person that appeared as JHVH in the Old Testament, and that God the Father was effectively unknown to humanity until Jesus revealed his existence.

Rather than supporting Marcion's views, Luke 10:22 confirms that the Father can be known only through the revelation of the Son.

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No, primarily because Marcion believed God the Father was an evil God, not just insufficiently knowable. There is also no temporal aspect in sight here at all when Jesus says revelatory knowledge of God is impossible without the Son: if you know God, it is only through the Son that you know Him; it says nothing about 'until the Son revealed' (i.e. in the Incarnation). Moses knew the Father only through the Son (this perhaps explains the Angel of the Lord problem). The same applies to anyone. You can't divorce the Son from the Father, else you have no Father nor no Son: "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son, hath the Father also" (1 John 2:23).

"Handed over" is a paraphrastic translation which waters down the doctrine here taught: "All things are delivered to me by my Father." He inherits Godhood and is the image to the world of that invisible God (1 Corinthians 1:15). The same applies to the Holy Ghost, who recieves from the Son: "But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you. He shall glorify me; because he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it to you. All things whatsoever the Father hath, are mine. Therefore I said, that he shall receive of mine, and shew it to you." (John 16:13-15).

  • Marcion doesn't believe that God The Father is evil. If you want to state that thrn please provide a reference. Instead, Marcion believed that no one knew The Father until Christ revealed Him which means that Moses did not know The Father, but followed another god who allowed violence and wars. That probably explains why Moses was violent when Christ taught to turn the other cheek and to love enemies and forgive. – God_Is_Love May 10 at 21:40
  • No, those are the same things. Moses follows Yahweh, the one described as the only God apart from whom there is no other, and is the God of the Jews, and thus Jesus. It is a made up distinction based on a created problem which is created by bad exegesis and question-begging to say that God is different from the Father. – Sola Gratia May 10 at 21:56
  • Jesus say that no one knows The Father except through Him , but you claim that Moses did. Why should your view be accepted over Luke 10:22? Even in John 10:8, Jesus says that all who came before Him are liars and thieves. – God_Is_Love May 10 at 22:26
  • I didn't claim Moses did; I said the opposite. I said Moses knew the Father through the Son ("Moses knew the Father only through the Son")... Jesus was talking about pastors who didn't care for the flock in John 10:8.He isn't saying Abraham, Moses, Isaac, Jacob, the prophets etc. were 'liars and thieves.' As Nigel noted, Jesus affirmed the Pentateuch. So anyone entertaining the idea that the God of the Pentateuch is a false god hasn't got their head screwed on or just has never read the thing. – Sola Gratia May 10 at 22:35
  • The Father did not reveal The Son yet. He was not sent yet, so Moses did not truly know The Son and therefore did not truly know The Father. Just because Moses said some good things, or God helped Moses somewhat, that doesn't mean that he actually understood God without misunderstanding and misinterpretation. Luke 10:22 is clear that only Christ reveals The Father. – God_Is_Love May 10 at 22:42
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I think we should not take the musings of a biblical commentator over the actual texts. The text is clear there are two Yahwehs. When God said he will send an angel to bring the people into the land of Canaan, did Marcion read the part where it says the Israelites should be careful and attend to everything that this angel said? This angel did not pardon their transgressions that is clear.

This angel was Yahweh, the elders of Israel saw God and did eat in his presence while Moses went up to meet with Yahweh. From the time of the tabernacle onwards this angel was Yahweh. Before you read any commentary or private intepretation of the text I suggest that you make yourself familiar with it so that you can draw your own conclusions.

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