3

[1Pe 4:17-18 DBY] (17) For the time of having the judgment begin from the house of God is come; but if first from us, what shall be the end of those who obey not the glad tidings of God? (18) And if the righteous is difficultly saved, where shall the impious and the sinner appear?

Is Peter referring to the "house" of God (IE: the temple) or "the household"? And does he mean the believing house/household or the unbelieving?

Optional: What is his reasoning about the righteous being "difficultly saved"?

2

There are two questions about the passage in 1 Peter 4:17, 18.

Household/Family of God (v17)

This phrase "household of God" refers to the Christian community, see Eph 2:19, 1 Tim 3:15, Titus 1:7, Heb 3:2, 5, 6, 10:21, etc. This is conformed in the same verse where Peter writes, " … judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us … ". Apparently, Ellicott agrees:

Begin at the house of God.--The phrase contains an obvious reference to Ezekiel 9:6 (comp. also Jeremiah 25:29). Who are meant by the "house of God" is clear, not only from such passages as 1Peter 2:5; 1Corinthians 3:16; 2Thessalonians 2:4, but also from the immediate addition, "and if first at us."

Further, Paul also uses the Temple as a metaphor of the Christian community, 1 Cor 3;16, 17. In this and the other famous metaphor of the Christian community - the wheat and weeds parable, the righteous and the unrighteous in the church co-exist and are separated at the judgement.

Difficult Salvation (v18)

God is a great saviour and thus I do not believe the difficulty of salvation refers to any difficulty with God but with us. There are several references to this idea such as 1 Cor 3:15, Job 19:20, and of course the verse that Peter quotes is from Prov 11:31. As the Pulpit commentary observes:

The righteous shall be requited in the earth, that is, chastised for his transgressions. So it would be now, St. Peter says; judgment must begin at the house of God. He adopts the inexact Septuagint translation for its substantial truth, as we now sometimes use versions which are sufficient for practical purposes, though we know them to be critically inaccurate. We observe again the absence of marks of quotation, as often in St. Peter. Bengel well remarks that the awful "scarcely" (μόλις σώζεται) is softened by 2 Peter 1:11.

Ellicott reaches a similar conclusion:

The fact that they are "scarcely" saved "imports not," according to Leighton, "any uncertainty or hazard in the thing itself to the end, in respect of the purpose and performance of God, but only the great difficulties and hard encounters in the way." This is only partly true. The Apostle is rather thinking of the final judgment than of the life of trial; and he means that there was but little margin left: a very few more falls, a few more refusals to follow the calls of grace, and they would have been lost. Doubtless, when the best of us looks back, in the light of the last day, upon all that he has been through, he will be amazed that he ever could be saved at all. Yet Bengel well calls us to see the other side of the picture in 2Peter 1:11.

2
  • Ezekiel 9:6 seems ambiguous: [Eze 9:6-7 KJV] (6) Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. (7) And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
    – Ruminator
    Apr 2 '19 at 22:05
  • Quite right - the slaying was among the so-called people of God, the Jews at the time. God was effectively separating the loyal Jews from the apostate Jews among the household of God. The same is true today among the Christian community - not all Christians will be saved.
    – user25930
    Apr 2 '19 at 22:42
1

There is no need for any subjective interpretation here. Refer to the original Greek text:

> ... [10] εκαστος καθως ελαβεν χαρισμα εις εαυτους αυτο διακονουντες ως καλοι οικονομοι ποικιλης χαριτος θεου ... [17] οτι ο καιρος του αρξασθαι το κριμα απο του οικου του θεου ει δε πρωτον αφ ημων τι το τελος των απειθουντων τω του θεου ευαγγελιω ...
> ... [10] each [one], just as [he] received graciousness, ministering it to each other, as good stewards of [the] manifold grace of God ... [17] because [it is] the time [that] the judgement has come [starting] from the house of God. But if first from us, what [is] the end of the [ones] who are disobedient to the good tidings of God? ...

Clearly then "του οικου του θεου" refers to the same house of God for which each one of his intended audience is supposed to be a good stewards ("οικονομοι").

4
  • Hi David and thank you for your response. So which house is he referring to?
    – Ruminator
    Dec 23 '20 at 13:51
  • @Ruminator: He is referring to the same house of God as in 1 Pet 2:5, namely God's people as a collective whole (2:10). The point of my post was to make it completely clear that the "house of God" in 4:17 is obviously not the individual household given the choice of (Greek) words to tie that with the household of God, since "οικονομοι" means something like household managers.
    – David
    Dec 23 '20 at 17:56
  • Thank you for the clarification. I posted my own answer, in which I opine that he seems to be speaking specifically of leadership of Jerusalem: [Luk 21:20 NLT] (20) "And when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you will know that the time of its destruction has arrived.
    – Ruminator
    Dec 23 '20 at 18:46
  • Your interpretation is simply impossible, and I will explain below your post.
    – David
    Dec 27 '20 at 15:43
0

I posed this question some 20 months ago and have puzzled over it many times. It always seemed bent and I found no satisfying answer. For some reason, I didn't think to check how Ezekiel 9:6 read in the Greek text. When I did, it became, I believe, very clear:

[Brenton Septuagint Eze 9:6] Slay utterly old man and youth, and virgin, and infants, and women: but go ye not nigh any on whom is the mark: begin at my sanctuary. So they began with the elder men () who were within in the house.

[Eze 9:6 LXX] (6) πρεσβύτερον καὶ νεανίσκον καὶ παρθένον καὶ νήπια καὶ γυναῗκας ἀποκτείνατε εἰς ἐξάλειψιν ἐπὶ δὲ πάντας ἐφ᾽ οὕς ἐστιν τὸ σημεῗον μὴ ἐγγίσητε καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ἁγίων μου ἄρξασθε καὶ ἤρξαντο ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνδρῶν τῶν πρεσβυτέρων οἳ ἦσαν ἔσω ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ

In 1 Peter, Peter identifies himself as an elder, and in the next chapter he specifies that he is exhorting the elders:

[1Pe 5:1-4 CSB] (1) I exhort (παρακαλῶ, present active indicative) the elders among you as a fellow elder and witness to the sufferings of Christ, as well as one who shares in the glory about to be revealed: (2) Shepherd God's flock among you, not overseeing out of compulsion but willingly, as God would have you; not out of greed for money but eagerly; (3) not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. (4) And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

So it seems clear that Peter understands Ezekiel 9:6 LXX to be saying that judgment must begin in Jerusalem, with the leaders of God's flock. He is referring to the horrors and destruction of the temple, Jerusalem, the Jewish polity of the Great Jewish Revolt c. 70 AD/CE.

In the gospels, Jesus tells parables to the effect that he is going to judge the leaders of the temple based polity (the scribes, Pharisees, the Sanhedrin, etc.) for their leadership as well per Ezekiel 34. Please see "the sheep and the goats" in Matthew 25 and:

[Mat 21:43-45 NKJV] (43) "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. (44) "And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder." (45) Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.

Related:

[Jer 25:29 NLT] (29) I have begun to punish Jerusalem, the city that bears my name. Now should I let you go unpunished? No, you will not escape disaster. I will call for war against all the nations of the earth ["land", of Israel]. I, the LORD of Heaven's Armies, have spoken!'

[Eze 9:6 NLT] (6) Kill them all--old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders.

[Mat 3:10 NLT] (10) Even now the ax of God's judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire. [Note: I understand "trees" in scripture to refer to teachers.]

[Luk 12:47-48 NLT] (47) "And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn't prepared and doesn't carry out those instructions, will be severely punished. (48) But someone who does not know, and then does something wrong, will be punished only lightly. When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.

[Eze 34:17-24 NLT] (17) "And as for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign LORD says to his people: I will judge between one animal of the flock and another, separating the sheep from the goats. (18) Isn't it enough for you to keep the best of the pastures for yourselves? Must you also trample down the rest? Isn't it enough for you to drink clear water for yourselves? Must you also muddy the rest with your feet? (19) Why must my flock eat what you have trampled down and drink water you have fouled? (20) "Therefore, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will surely judge between the fat sheep and the scrawny sheep. (21) For you fat sheep pushed and butted and crowded my sick and hungry flock until you scattered them to distant lands. (22) So I will rescue my flock, and they will no longer be abused. I will judge between one animal of the flock and another. (23) And I will set over them one shepherd, my servant David. He will feed them and be a shepherd to them. (24) And I, the LORD, will be their God, and my servant David will be a prince among my people. I, the LORD, have spoken!

[Luk 21:20 NLT] (20) "And when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then you will know that the time of its destruction has arrived.

2
  • This interpretation is wrong. As I quoted in my post, 1 Pet 4 itself says "[it is] the time [that] the judgement has come [starting] from the house of God. But if first from us, ...", making it clear that the judgement starts from the house of God including the author of 1 Pet 4! Note that the grammar does not allow reading the "from" as denoting origin, because the Greek word for "judgement" means the outcome rather than action of judging. Thus the author is saying that it is time for God's judgement to begin starting from themselves and then proceeding to the disobedient.
    – David
    Dec 27 '20 at 15:51
  • It doesn't make sense to say it is only restricted to the elders either, because there are clearly only two groups here, "us (all in the house of God)" and "those who are disobedient".
    – David
    Dec 27 '20 at 15:53

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.