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This may be a little controversial, even for me but I'm presenting some inductive study I've been doing and I'm hoping that someone can point out any failure(s) in my reasoning in the scriptures here.

Jesus was the long promised heir to the throne of David:

[Luk 1:33 CSB] 33 "He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and his kingdom will have no end." nGNT Luke 1:33
καὶ βασιλεύσει ἐπὶ τὸν οἶκον Ἰακὼβ εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας καὶ τῆς βασιλείας αὐτοῦ οὐκ ἔσται τέλος..

However, by refusing their king (because God had blinded them) the Jews forfeited the kingdom:

[Mat 21:43 CSB] 43 "Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruit

As Peter said to the Jews, Israel is gone but:

[2Pe 1:11 KJV] 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

IE: The kingdom in the sky, not Israel.

Daniel also is speaks four times of the kingdom being given to the saints of the most high:

[Dan 7:18, 22, 25, 27 KJV] 18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. ... 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. ... 25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. ... 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Paul also speaks of his own delivering of the kingdom to God:

[1Co 15:24-28 CSB] 24 Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he abolishes all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he puts all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be abolished is death. 27 For God has put everything under his feet. Now when it says "everything" is put under him, it is obvious that he who puts everything under him is the exception. 28 When everything is subject to Christ, then the Son himself will also be subject to the one who subjected everything to him, so that God may be all in all. https://www.blueletterbible.org/csb/1co/15/24/s_1077024

I realize, of course, that he is simply quoting Psalm 110:1:

[Psa 110:1 CSB] 1 This is the declaration of the LORD to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool."

But the kingdom is not Israel anymore, but rather the invisible kingdom of God and apparently, for the long haul God alone will rule and God will rule alone.

Wild. I'm open to another interpretation but can't find another one.

**So to make a long question even longer, am I correct that Jesus is not and never will be the Davidic king of Israel and was/will be (was from my perspective) KURIOS of the body of Christ ONLY until the enemies of God are subjected and Jesus delivers the kingdom to God so that "God may be all in all". Or as I like to say, "God alone with rule and God will rule alone".

What have I missed?**

If Jesus is going to rule in Jerusalem in David's throne, when and how will that ever happen?

Thanks.

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    A Good & Important Question as The whole world will be influanced by the right answer! – user26950 Nov 27 '18 at 13:48
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And the Lord said unto Abram ... Lift up now thine eyes and look from the place where thou art to the northward, and southward, and eastward and westward : for all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it. Genesis 13:14 KJV.

Abraham looked to the horizon, and could see no more, but what God had actually promised him was even further than the eye can perceive - beyond the horizon and all the way round the globe.

For Paul interprets this promise as :

For the promise that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. Romans 4:13 KJV.

Abram did not get involved with the war between four kings and five, Genesis 14:1-11, because Abram had already been promised the entire planet. Why bother ?

But then they took Lot, 14:12. Only then did Abram go out with his own servants and take Lot back. And took nought else, but gave tithes to Melchizedek, King of Salem, who typifies Christ.

The promise was to Abraham and his seed.

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to thy seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed - which is Christ. Galatians 3:16.

All that followed afterwards, was but a demonstration among Israel of what would - later - be fulfilled globally. All that God did in Israel - sacrifices, ark, tabernacle, temple, kingdom, Solomon - all of it was a picture, a figure, a demonstration.

What was real - was yet to come.

Canaan, was never the real purpose. Jerusalem was never the actual point. An earthly kingdom, as Matthew's account shows, was never in view.

The promises of God Almighty pertained to the world to come. Look at the stars - how many are there ? So shall the seed be. Look to the horizon - and beyond, if you can. So is the inheritance.

All this to be fulfilled after the elements melt with fervent heat, II Peter 3:12. After the stars fall from their place, Mark 13:25. After there are new heavens, II Peter 3:13, for even the stars, presently, are not clean in his sight, Job 15:15.

New heavens. New earth. An Everlasting Testament in the blood of Jesus Christ. The resurrection of the body in a glorious resurrection. Being with Christ, himself, for ever. Redemption and restoration, in the righteousness of God, himself.

Looking for 'Jesus to rule in Jerusalem in David's throne' misses the point of the promises made to Abraham long before there even was an Israel.

  • @Ruminator In New Jerusalem, is where Christ shall reign. Under new heavens, and on a new earth. He is not coming back to this vile place. – Nigel J Nov 27 '18 at 2:13
  • I completely agree. – user25930 Nov 27 '18 at 5:49
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No, the plan was not scrapped, just misunderstood.

Many of the Jews assumed that the "everlasting kingdom" of Psa. 145:13, Dan. 4:3, 34; 7:14, 27; 2 Pet. 1:11 was supposed to be a physical, fleshly kingdom here in this earth realm.

Just as the Israelite had refused God as their king (1 Sam. 8:7) to be like the nations around them, they again rejected God's plan by crucifying His Son because they still wanted to be like the nations around them. They wanted to have an earthly king who would reign in Jerusalem and free them from the Roman occupation under the Caesars.

The Pharisees asked Christ when the reign of God would come (Luke 17:20). They were expecting to be told of an earthly reign.

His disciples didn't understand either as they asked Him before His ascension...

"...Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6, KJV)

They wanted an earthly kingdom with the power and wealth that their fathers had enjoyed under David and Solomon in the beginning of the kings of Israel.

But, Christ told them that His kingdom was not of this world (John 18:36), meaning that the origin was from heaven above; that the kingdom did not come with observation (Luke 17:20), and that it was within them when He walked on this earth (Luke 17:21).

It was for this very reason that the Pharisees and Sadduccees rejected Yeshua as the Messiah, because He was not going to do what they expected. They wanted an earthly king and an earthly kingdom to set them back up again as a world power and they were expecting to be part of that power base.

Christ told them He was taking the kingdom away from them and giving it to another people (Matt. 21:43; Acts 28;28).

An everlasting kingdom requires an everlasting - immortal - king; a king that cannot die. A king that cannot die does not live in this realm.

Christ was resurrected! That is the sign they were given, and is recorded for us to know and understand His eternal nature in heaven as our eternal, everlasting High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

All of the book of Hebrews assures us the higher nature, the heavenly nature of His kingdom, and of His priesthood. Comparing Christ's eternal priesthood to those of the earthly Levitical priests, Heb. 7:23-24 states the reason why the kingdom is not of this earth.

"23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.” (KJV)

The earthly priests died. The eternal kingdom cannot be an everlasting "earthly" or fleshly, carnal kingdom because earthly men die. The ruler of the eternal heavenly kingdom that is in our hearts, within us in this earthly realm exists in heaven above, and is the highest authority over all of the earthly kingdoms of this earth realm.

The change that takes place after we have left our earthly tabernacle of our fleshly body transfers us from this earthly realm to the heavenly realm above.

"47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." ....

"53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Cor. 15:47-50, 53 KJV)

That heavenly eternal kingdom was "at hand" when Christ was manifested on earth (Matt. 3:2; 4:17; 10:17, etc.) It was about to be established in that 1st century AD, and it was to be a kingdom that reigns in the hearts of men, over and above all kingdoms of men.

The victory over death, the last enemy (1 Cor 15: 26) is through the resurrection. Once we are baptized (immersed) into Christ and resurrected from that symbolic watery "death" we rise a new creature (2 Cor. 5:17) so that when we die we are just transferred / translated into our heavenly body and moved to the heavenly realm.

The "end" of 1 Cor 15:24 when He would deliver up the kingdom to the Father is not speaking of the end of all life on earth, nor the destruction of the entire physical realm / world. It was the end of the Mosaic covenant which still required the blood of goats and bulls to push forward the debt of their sins. But, that animal sacrificial blood could not take away sins (Heb 10:4). Only Christ's blood could do that.

Christ had a job to do. He had to buy us back, and redeem us to reconcile us to the Father. Think of this as a delegated task which Christ willingly took on. He came to do the will of the Father (John 5:30; 6:39). Once that task was done, once He paid the price of our redemption, and once He removed that physical temple in Jerusalem which was part of the task, then He reported back to the Father that it was done.

Delivering the kingdom up to the Father does not mean that Christ no longer rules. He finished that job, and now has another. God still gave His Son the everlasting priesthood of Melchizedek, and set Him up at His right hand to rule in the Father's kingdom. One task was complete, and another task took it's place. Christ is always doing the Father's will.

The "melting of the elements" in 2 Pet 3:10 is not speaking of the Greek elements of earth, air, wind, and fire. It is not the elements of the physical natural world. The Greek word is Strong's 4747, "στοιχεῖον", or "stoicheion", and it means "one of a row, hence a letter (of the alphabet), by ext. the elements (of knowledge)". Source: Biblehub.

The elements of knowledge were the law, the system of worship and sacrifice at the temple in Jerusalem. The same word is used in the context of being in bondage under the elements of the law in Gal. 4:3-5. The word is rendered as “rudiments” in Col. 2:8, 20 where the traditions of men, and ordinances of men are discussed. It is translated as “principles” in Heb. 5:12 for the first principles of the gospel.

The elements of the law melted in the fervent heat of God's judgment upon Jerusalem in the destruction of that temple that was set on fire on the 9th - 10th of Av in AD 70. For more discussion on these elements see my post "Frequent Mistakes - Part VI: The End of The World, or ???" here.

The everlasting kingdom is in power now over all the kingdoms of men, and Christ reigns eternally at the right hand of the Father (Rom 13:1). That is the higher authority which God established. (See my post "First Audience Perspective of Romans 13" here. Romans 13 is not being taught correctly either.)

"...To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth...." (John 18:37, KJV)

"And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords." (Rev. 19:16, KJV)

  • +1 for the first half, @Gina. But you lost me after 'He removed that physical temple in Jerusalem' and the 'melting of the elements'... – Possibility Nov 27 '18 at 14:55
  • @Possibility - it takes some study, as most ppl are taught to read 2 Pet 3 as tho it speaks of the end of the entire physical world. Pls see the post I referenced above, b/c the melting of the elements only spoke of the removal of the law / ordinances for the temple worship under the old Mosaic covenant. Since we are no longer under that old animal sacrificial covenant, then the world must have melted, right ? Matt. 24:35, "Heaven and earth shall pass away..." Heaven and earth was a compound metaphor for the covenant. – Gina Nov 27 '18 at 15:12
  • Lots of good stuff, as usual . However, you wrote: "Delivering the kingdom up to the Father does not mean that Christ no longer rules. He finished that job, and now has another. God still gave His Son the everlasting priesthood of Melchizedek, and set Him up at His right hand to rule in the Father's kingdom." But doesn't Paul say that Jesus steps down so God can rule alone? – Ruminator Nov 27 '18 at 16:05
  • @Ruminator - 1 Cor 15:24-27 is chain of command. In Jesus' prayer in the garden He spoke of the glory that He shared with the Father (John 17:1-4). Jesus has always been subject to the Father, and been about His Father's business. The implication that Jesus would no longer share in that same glory after He delivered the reign back up to the Father is being incorrectly read into the texts. Rev. 21:22-23 make it clear that both God and His Son (the Lamb) are the light of the sanctuary, the heavenly temple of the New Jerusalem. Christ shares in the glory of the Father just as b4, .... – Gina Nov 28 '18 at 7:19
  • @Ruminator cont'd... reigning at the Father's right hand. Isa. 9:6-7. The idea of co-reigning, a Son under His Father's command, and we are also reigning with Him though subject to that same will of the Father (1 Tim. 2:12), by carrying out His will as His ambassadors here on earth (2 Cor. 5:20) on behalf of Christ, & with Him in His body, His church, part of that same reign or dominion (1 Cor. 12:18-27). Reign, dominion, body. All have a part to play, a job to do, all under the ultimate reign of the Father. – Gina Nov 28 '18 at 7:26
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If you are talking of the Jewish Nation on Earth then the answer must be Yes.

God rejected the Jewish Nation as a whole when they murdered his son The Messiah:-

[] Added

NWT Matthew 23:38, 39 “Look! Your house [way of worship] is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”

This in the fullfilment of this prophecy:-

NWT Jeremiah 12:7 “I have abandoned my house; I have deserted my inheritance. I have given my dearly beloved one [Jesus] into the hand of her enemies [Jewish Religious Leaders & Romans].”

Daniel also said:- [] Added

NWT “Daniel 2:44 “ “In the days of those kings [the world powers] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom [a heavenly one] that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. [the saints/elect will have it] It will crush and put an end to all these [all human; including Israel today] kingdoms , and it [God’s hevenly kingdom] alone will stand forever,

Thus God replaced the Jewish unfaithful nation with a heavely Zion as God place of everlasting rule:-

[] Added

NWT Hebrews 12:22 “But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living God, HEAVENLY JERUSALEM [seat of rulership of God’s King Jesus] , and myriads of angels ..”

[] Added not an earthly Kingdom, buit one over the earth from heaven”

NWT Revelation 5:9, 10 “And they sing a new song, saying: “You [Jesus] are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people [The Saints/Elect] for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they [The Saints/Elect] are to rule as kings OVER the earth.”

Further to the above:-

NWT John 14:19 “In a little while the world [on earth] will see me no more, but you [his followers] will see me, because I live and you will live [in heaven].

So no; the Jewish kingdom will never rule on earth!

  • Excellent stuff. However, you quote Rev 5:10 which says: "...and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they [The Saints/Elect] are to rule as kings OVER the earth.” This is what I'm seeing. Four times in Daniel it is the saints that rule for ever while Jesus rules until he puts his feet on the neck of God's enemies and then delivers the kingdom to God (and apparently, the saints)! Is that how you see it? – Ruminator Nov 27 '18 at 21:38
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    @Ruminator In a word yes. As the kingdom was an emergancy tool to restore manking back to the point they were before Adam sinned. When this is done the Kingdom with have done it job and it works benefits (the wordk it done, redeem mankind and glorify Jehovah God) will last forever. At that time Jesus will give his rulership back to God as all has been done then God alone will be universal King forever as Jesus along with the elect submit to God forever. In short. – user26950 Nov 27 '18 at 22:06
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It is a false premise that God has replaced Israel with the Church (called "replacement theology"). It is also a false premise that the promises are now spiritual only and will not be revealed in a literal and physical kingdom on earth (BOTH ARE TRUE).

Romans 11:25 (Bereans Study Bible heading MYSTERY!!All Israel Shall Be Saved):

Regarding ISRAEL and the Gentiles*>"24 For if you were cut from a wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into one that is cultivated, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob.…"*

  • List itemI believe "the mystery of the dispensation of his grace which was not previously known, God had planned from the beginning." KJV

  • List item the kingdom is within you yes, but will ultimately be revealed after the tribulation when God deals with the nation of Israel.

This is a huge subject - I cannot provide all the passages for study. I recommend you watch youtube videos about:

  • List item "Dispensationalism"
  • List item "replacement theology"
  • List item "the one new man"
  • List item "the wild root/branch and the natural branch"
  • List item and other related subjects.

For centuries the State church (largely Catholic) and the denominational churches taught falsely that The Church replaced Israel leading to much anti-Semitism. Many new testament passages go into great detail to split hairs explaining this mystery. The church tried to set up the kingdom on earth and merged with the state in an unhealthy alliance.

...Also Revelations deals with the future of Israel and "the earthly kingdom" millennial reign of Christ. There is natural Israel and spiritual Israel and God has a specific time table and desire to create. "ONE NEW MAN"

The Church in God's plan is a "Mystery" that was not overtly revealed to the Jews. God chose a bride which will be raptured to heaven and return with Him to set up his kingdom on earth. Revelations 21:2 (Berean Study Bible):

>1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.…

The BRIDE WILL COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN WITH JESUS AT HIS MILLENIAL REIGN.

As far as the nation of Israel "they have experience a hardening in part until the full amount of Gentiles has come in" Romans 11:25

  • The saints refer to "The church" "the bride who has made herself ready"(including jews and gentiles) and "the tribulation saints" those who get saved during the tribulation after the church has been raptured out(Jews and Gentiles). God's timetable largely for dealing with Israel is future after certain events take place. This view would be considered "Dispensationalist"(in part of in whole) and "Premillenialist". I recommend researching reputable teachers on these subjects who site bible passages. THIS way too huge a subject to do justice to here. A few clues to ponder stimulating study. – Ted Myrrh Nov 28 '18 at 0:21
  • The Kingdom and the King are "NOW(spiritually within you and from heaven) and NOT YET(physically on earth at the final return of Jesus to Deal with the nations including literal Israel)" remember this is called a MYSTERY so "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter and the glory of Kings to search them out" – Ted Myrrh Nov 28 '18 at 0:24
  • Hi Ted, may I ask you to break up your post in to "bullet" or something because as written it is one long paragraph. Some will say "TLDR" - "Too Long, Didn't Read" and move by. I tried but couldn't focus on all those words. Thanks. – Ruminator Nov 28 '18 at 0:43

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