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In the Gospel of Matthew, 24:30 (NIV), Jesus says:

Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

This seems to combine Daniel 7:13 and the vision of the coming of the Son of Man on the Clouds with Zechariah 12:10-14 and the mourning of the tribes.

Revelation 1:7 also seems to combine these same passages (NIV):

Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all peoples on earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

The Matthew passage seems to give more space to the Daniel text whereas the Revelation text gives more space to the Zechariah passage. Also, interestingly the Revelation passage drops the "Son of Man" reference from the Daniel quotation.

Do these two passages (in Matthew and Revelation) refer to the same events/things? Or are the two authors using them for different purposes?

  • Excellent Question! I would add the passage in Matt.16:4, "....there shall be no sign given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah." I submit that is the sign of the cross; the universally recognized symbol of Christianity, known by atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Animists alike. The symbol of torture is the symbol of redemption; and the symbol persists through all generations, whether the meaning of it is understood. – Tau Apr 14 '18 at 14:29
  • Where do I find Daniel 7:30? – enegue Apr 14 '18 at 21:40
  • @enegue Sorry, meant 7:13. Probably had 30 in my head because of the Matthew reference. – Soldarnal Apr 15 '18 at 2:02
  • @Ruminator I rolled back your edit because I'm interested in more than just are they referring to the same events. For instance that answer could be yes, but the two authors have different slants on those events so-to-speak. Thanks for understanding. – Soldarnal Apr 15 '18 at 2:09
  • No problem. Sometimes people get confused about what the question is when the title doesn't match the summary question at the end of the post. Here they are close enough. May I trouble you to add the Daniel and Zechariah verses you reference into your post? Also can you supply what the preposition is in relation to the clouds in each case? I mean, is it en, meta, epi etc. because they are not all the same and I think that significant and the translations are sloppy about it. Thanks. – Ruminator May 15 '18 at 10:02
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It compares nicely because it actually backs up what Jesus said at Matthew 24:30-31. Even the Apostle Paul backs it up at 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. If you look, the disciples (at least three of them) ask Jesus, (Matthew 24:3) "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the world/age?"

When will these things be refers to the temple at 70ad. The rest of what Jesus said is future and by the way, this is "NOT" figurative language. Anyway, the tip off of this happening is at Matthew 24:15. "Therefore when you see the Abomination of Desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, (let the reader understand), Then Jesus explains what we are to do.

Then vs29, "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the Sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken, vs30 and 31 we already know what is going to happen.

The Apostle Paul even backs up Matthew 24:15 at 2 Thessalonians 2:1-13. So does the Apostle John at 1 John 2:18 when he says, "Children, it is the last hour and just as your heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrist have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour." I find that the Bible is extremely consistent and not contradicting itself.

In closing I guess the 64 thousand dollar question that has been debated for centuries is, "When is the Lord Jesus coming back? Is it before the tribulation, in the middle of the tribulation or after the tribulation? My personal view, is after.

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They compare very favorably as they are the same prophecy.

The figurative language of prophesy is a visual tool for God's children; a type of picture book to help us understand things we cannot see. Coming in the clouds was the image of God in His chariot coming down to visit man, and indicated the presence of God with man, usually during a time of judgment.

Psa. 104:3,

" Who is laying the beam of His upper chambers in the waters, Who is making thick clouds His chariot, Who is walking on wings of wind," (YLT)

The imagery is used again in Ezek. chap. 1 (the prophesy of the judgment upon Jerusalem) of the coming of God's chariot in the clouds describing the chariot's wheels, and the cherubim surrounding God.

It is used again in Jer. 4:13 in the judgment against Jerusalem; again in Joel 2:2 for the coming of the Lord in judgment against Jerusalem; they are the dust of His feet in Nahum 1:3.

It is used again in the prophetic judgment against Judah & Jerusalem in Zeph. 1:14-15:

"14 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness," (KJV)

God's image of traveling to earth, of coming in judgment upon the nations, and upon Jerusalem was "in the clouds". It was used most often during a time of judgment upon wicked people, and was therefore associated with judgment language.

Caiaphas most definitely recognized that same judgment language when Christ pronounced it against the high priest in Matt. 26:64. It is why Caiaphas tore his clothes. Caiaphas knew that language and believed that Christ had just blasphemed God, the very charge they laid against Christ before Pilate.

In Dan. 7:13 we find the prophesy of the ascension of Christ after His crucifixion, and the language uses the traveling method of God.

"I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him." (KJV)

The fulfillment of Dan. 7:13 was the ascension of Christ in Acts 1:9.

"And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight." (KJV)

His ascension is recalled in a flash back moment of the throne scene in Rev. 5:6 as the Lamb just slain.

So, when Matt. c. 24 records Christ's prophesy of His coming in the clouds, we need to immediately think of judgment language, and find out which wicked people was the subject of the coming. When we go back up to vs. 1 we find that Christ was telling His disciples of the destruction of their temple.

Everything in Matt. chap. 24 centered around the things that would happen before that temple was destroyed, and His coming in judgment was described as "coming in the clouds of heaven".

In prophesy, "earth" was most often the land of Israel. It is again used for the remnant of Israel, or Judah / Judea in Matt. ch. 24. So, the tribes of the "land of Judah" were the remnant of the tribes of Israel, and the judgment was pronounced against Jerusalem.

Just as it was again in Rev. 1:7,

"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." (KJV)

We see the signal, the symbol of coming with the clouds and immediately know He was speaking of judgment against the wicked. A very telling clue is "they also which pierced him".

Those who pierced Him were those who not only carried out the crucifixion - the Romans - but also those who insisted upon it -the Jews. Remember Matt. 27:25 where they said,

"Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children." (KJV)

Revelation was the double fulfillment of the prophesy of the destruction of Jerusalem given in Ezek. 22:18-22; the fulfillment of the prophesy of Christ in Matt. 24 for the destruction of the temple; and the fulfillment of Peter's prophesy for the melting of the "elements" in 2 Pet. 3:10.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." (KJV)

"The Lord will come" signals the prophesy of judgment, so we switch to prophetic language of imagery. The heavens that shall pass are not those where God sits on His thrown. The heavens that pass are the kingdoms of men, the dominions of kings which are raised up and thrown down at God's will (Jer. 31:28; Lam. 2:2; Mal. 1:4). The "earth" was again the remnant of Israel - Judah, and the works therein were the temple and animal sacrifices which Christ had prophesied would be destroyed in Matt. 24.

Matt. 23:36-38,

"36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." (KJV)

Their house, their temple was left desolate, was destroyed at the coming of the Lord in the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. The prophesy of Matt. 24:30, and Rev. 1:7 was for the same destruction of the wicked who had crucified our Messiah, our Lord and Savior. All of Revelation was about that destruction that was soon to come upon those who heard the prophesy in that generation.

All bold emphasis is mine. There are many evidences of scriptures which prove the the fulfillment of the prophesies in the first century A.D. in the posts at my site ShreddingTheVeil.

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