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I thought I understood this Bible fragment:

51Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
-- 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV)

... but in reality, I do not.

It is telling about the resurrection. But the resurrection happens after rapture of the church. If the church is already raptured, it is already changed to sinlessness. So, what "change" is verse 52 talking about?

I want all opinions.

  • I have added quote formatting to clearly distinguish your own words from the words you are quoting. To begin a quote use the '>' symbol as the first character of a new paragraph, then terminate the quote with a blank line. Please edit your answer below to format any quotes in this way. – enegue Sep 24 '17 at 2:57
  • I don't have enough to give for a full answer, but it is necessary information that: While the rapture doctrine is taken for granted within evangelical pockets of American Christianity, the concept did not exist before the 1800s, and has never been accepted by the vast majority of either Christian or secular scholars. A rapture doesn't fit with 1 Cor 15 because Paul didn't teach a rapture. – user2910 Sep 29 '17 at 15:50
  • Please note, also, that the Site Tour specifically says to 'Avoid questions that are primarily opinion-based'. Questions should be about understanding biblical texts through hermeneutical methods, and answers must 'show their work' as to how a particular interpretation was arrived at. – user2910 Sep 29 '17 at 15:53
  • The question is quite loaded in that it presumes that there is a biblical basis for "the rapture". – user33515 Jan 28 '18 at 22:31
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1 Corinthians 15:51-52 is one of many passages of scripture that supports the fact that there is no evidence for a "secret rapture". In fact, the word rapture was invented by theologians and refers to the second coming of Jesus Christ as promised in John 14:1-3. There is absolutely no evidence for the church being taken away before Christ return or of Christ coming in 2 phases. Please consider these reference:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
— 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)

First:
When Jesus Christ returns it will be very LOUD and Glorious NOT secret (see also 2 Peter 3:10, Psalm 50:3, Revelation 6:16,17, Matthew 24:31).

Second:
Those that are "sleeping in Christ" (aka dead Christian), they will be resurrected and go up to meet Jesus "in the air".

Third:
Those that are Christians that are alive will go up to also meet Jesus "in the air".

Christ's coming will be very obvious, no one will have to tell you:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. KJV — Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. KJV For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
— Matthew 24:24-27 (KJV)

Jesus will be with His people to the end via the Holy Spirit until his second coming:

But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
— Revelation 2:25,26 (KJV)

and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
— Matthew 28:20 (KJV)

...now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
— 2Corinthians 6:2 (KJV)

Consider who are true jews now (post-Christ resurrection):

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
— Romans 2:28-29 (KJV)

also:

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
— Galatians 3:27-29 (KJV)

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  • Ugh, you seem right that rapture and resurrection of the death is the same event. Can I propose a "new" theory that though rapture and resurrection happen simultaneously (so that all resurrected saints go to the heaven), after some time there will be return of Christ together with already resurrected saints and establishing His kingdom on the Earth. Is it really a new theory? Where to hear about it? Should I ask a separate question asking if this is a new theory? – porton Sep 23 '17 at 21:13
  • It is not new. See my answer, it is even recorded in Wikipedia – porton Sep 23 '17 at 21:47
  • Welcome to BH.SE! If you haven't already done so, please take the tour to get a feel for how the site functions. I have added quote formatting, i.e. a '>' symbol as the first character of a new paragraph, which is then terminated by a blank line. This clearly distinguishes your own words from the words you are quoting. – enegue Sep 24 '17 at 2:47
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It seems that my issue is eliminated if we follow the Wikipedia's definition of rapture:

rapture refers to the controversial "predicted" end time event when all Christian believers—living and resurrected dead—will rise into the sky and join Christ for eternity.

If we follow Wikipedia, the resurrection happens at rapture not a few years after it. Just my understanding of rapture was different than Wikipedia's one. Wikipedia wins, I lose.

And my version of rapture (with resurrection happening a few yeas after rapture) was clearly wrong accordingly:

(1Thes. 4) 15For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first, 17 then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.

I do not know where I get my wrong "theory".

So, I keep believing in "three comings" theory, but now another version of it.

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-1

The change it speaks of is the change from the mortal, fleshly body to the spiritual body at out bodily death (1 Cor. 15:44).

When we have trouble harmonizing the scriptures, we should immediately recognize that our understanding is at fault. If we let the Bible speak, and pay attention to what it says, rather than to what men have twisted it to mean, then the perceived "problems" with the scriptures disappear. Everything in the scriptures harmonize when we can drop the dogma of church teaching.

1 Cor. 15:52 speaks of the raising of the dead. False teachers were troubling the church at Corinth saying that there was no resurrection. The Corinthians were concerned about their loved ones who had died before Christ's return, and Paul was addressing that issue.

I Cor. 15:31-32,

"Every day do I die, by the glorying of you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord:

32 if after the manner of a man with wild beasts I fought in Ephesus, what the advantage to me if the dead do not rise? let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die!" (YLT)

1 Cor. 15:35-36,

" But some one will say, `How do the dead rise?

36 unwise! thou -- what thou dost sow is not quickened except it may die;" (YLT)

Confusion reigns when we do not stay on topic. Their concern was what happens after the body dies, and the discussion is the "rising again" after death.

No where in this chapter is there any concept or discussion of a "rapture", or of anyone being lifted into the skies before death of the body. The scriptures do not support any of the current teaching of a rapture.

Everyone dies. We are born, we live the time we have, and then the body dies as vs. 50 confirms:

"And this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood the reign of God is not able to inherit, nor doth the corruption inherit the incorruption;" (YLT)

Flesh and blood - the body - does not inherit the promise of eternal life in heaven. The corruptible flesh decays, the body dies. For those who die in the Lord (Rev. 14:13), it is raised after death incorruptible.

So, Paul concludes in vs. 51-52 the manner of the change after death. The rising again - the raising of the dead - takes place in a twinkling of an eye. In a moment, in a snap of the fingers we inherit the form of the spiritual body raised in glory (vs. 44).

Resurrection can only happen after we die. Then, the question comes to the timing that keeps being twisted in vs. 52. Many take the first half of the verse "the last trumpet" and make it simultaneous with the last half "we shall be changed" for everyone.

Since our resurrection - rising again of the dead - can only happen after we die, then the "we" of vs. 52 is speaking of our change after we die. There are 3 parts to the resurrection, and most people are confused about it.

Part I - Christ, the first fruits from the dead (1 Cor. 15:20) approx. AD. 31-33; then

Part II - the group resurrection of all those who had already died and were sleeping in Hades (Matt. 25:31-46) at His coming in A.D. 70 when He separated the sheep (His saved) from the goats (the rebellious lost); and

Part III - the change to the on-going, individual resurrection that is now in process, and has been ever since His second appearance to that generation of the first century A.D.

We have to get rid of the blinders that have been placed over our eyes so that we can see what the Bible really says about His coming. His second appearance was promised to that generation in which He was made manifest on earth. It was always promised to the first century AD who saw His death on the cross, who saw His resurrection, and who saw His ascension into heaven.

Heb. 9:28 was a promise to them - those first century Christians - that they would see Him a second time. You cannot have a second appearance of Him if you have never seen Him a first time. So, no other generation could have a second appearance of Him other than that first century AD generation who received the promise.

We are not looking for a future "end of the world" coming of the Lord. He reigns at the right hand of the Father now. He will come in judgment against nations any time He needs to just as He demonstrated throughout all of the OT. But, He has promised that never again would He destroy all living things as He had once done (Gen. 8:21).

The rainbow pictured around the throne scene in Rev. 4:3 was a reminder of that promise. The judgment prophesied upon those wicked Jews was not going to be a world-wide destruction.

His second coming was to punish that wicked generation of vipers, the one He told would pay for all the righteous blood shed from all generations past, from Abel to Zacharias (Matt. 23:35). He did not delay in that judgment, and it was poured out upon those who pierced Him (Rev. 1:7) and those who persecuted His saints in A.D. 70 at the destruction of Jerusalem and that Mosaic sacrificial temple.

So, Paul was telling the Corinthians that the dead in Christ would be raised at His soon to happen coming, in their generation. Christ did raise them from Hades. He took all the saved (sheep) home with Him. And, then He cast the lost into the lake of fire. And, then He threw Hades into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14). See the sequence of events outlined in Matt. 22:1-14 for the destruction of Jerusalem and the judgment that immediately followed.

Since Hades is gone, and has been gone for almost 2,000 years, the raising of the dead has been happening on a continual basis for every one as they die. The saved are taken home to heaven; and the lost are judged and cast out to outer darkness (Matt. 22:13).

See my post "The Resurrection in Three Parts" at my blog ShreddingTheVeil. See the other posts Parts I - X of "It's Not The End of The World" for the proof from the scriptures of His return in the first century A.D. You might also explore the other articles there for the series on The Signs of Revelation, The Beast of Revelation, The Whore of Babylon, etc.

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  • 1
    There is so much confusion and contradictions in this answer. I don't think preterists understand what ressurection means. Nor do they understand what the spiritual body is. Its still a body of flesh and bones, not an invisible spirit. Christ the firstfruits gave us an example of our ressurected immortal bodies. The ressurection happens on the last day, the scripture doesn't call it an on going process. Sorry this answer shows the weakness of preterism. – diego b Nov 24 '17 at 5:43
  • We are resurrected spiritually after baptism. We come up out of the water a new creature. The body that we receive after we leave this earthly realm is a "spiritual" body, of the glory of heaven. The bible does not say exactly what that body will be, but I never said it would lack form or substance. Many people assume that "the last day" is still to come for a world-wide, end of the world judgment. There was an end time to the old covenant at the destruction of the temple. That is the "end" that was mentioned all throughout the NT books. There is another "end" at our last trump, when... – Gina Nov 24 '17 at 11:20
  • each one of us passes from this mortal life. If we are covered by the blood of Christ when we die, then we pass from mortal life to eternal life, and are taken up to heaven to be with all the saved forever more. 1 Thess. 4:17 begins with "Then". It is a time break, and does not mean immediately. No one is resurrected from the dead without first dying. The process is life, death, eternal life. And it has continued for 2,000 years since the destruction of Jerusalem, which was the "end" promised in all of the OT and NT books. The time texts are critical, and most people are ignoring them. – Gina Nov 24 '17 at 11:25
  • Christ was manifested on earth in the first century A.D. And, 1 Pet. 1:20 says He , "...was manifest in these last times for you," So, He was manifested on earth in the first century AD, and He was manifested in the "last days". If A = B, and B=C, then A must also = C. He was manifested in the first century AD, and He was manifested in the "last days", so the first century A.D. were "the last days". What were they the last days of? From the OT prophesies, they were the last days, the end times of the old covenant. Please read the posts at my blog to see more. – Gina Nov 24 '17 at 11:30
  • I've read through a few of your blogs before, you are spreading a new modern doctrine of devils that you will give an account for. You should be being taught, instead of going out trying to be a teacher. Especially as a woman. Let's go into a chat so we can discuss all the things you just said. The last days begun at the incarnation according to the prophets, but has does not end in 70 ad. Luke 11:50 "That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation. " these are not only OT prophets.... – diego b Nov 24 '17 at 18:20

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