Is NWT's translation of John 8:58 reasonable?

Question

I already assumed the opposite in an answer to why there are so many Bible translations, on Christianity.SE. Now that we have an expert community, I'd like to check. The translators of the New World Translation (NWT) almost certainly know Greek better than me and are smarter than me, so maybe they had a good reason for their translation that I just can't see.

Comparing the New World Translation's take on John 8:58 to other English translations, we notice it's quite different from the rest. All other translations (that I've seen) translate "I am" whereas NWT translates "I have been" (NASB shown as an example):

New World Translation
Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

New American Standard Bible
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

I don't know Greek, so I'd like to hear the expert opinion. Is "I have been" a reasonable translation of the Greek text?
From the interlinear it looks like it boils down to, how should ἐγώ εἰμι be translated?

Answer 1

It does not appear to be a very good translation of this word.

1473 (εγώ) is the personal pronoun, "I", so it tells us that Jesus was talking about Himself.

1510.2.1 (ειμι) is the real core of the question. 1510 is the infinitive "to be, exist". The following numbers (".2.1") tell you more about the nuances of meaning - tense, voice, etc. Some lexicons will give another code here instead - in this case, my intralinear has G5748. Either of these codes tell you that this word is present tense, indicative mood.

Based on these findings, the most direct way to express this in English is "I am".

Contrast this with the word He used to describe Abraham. In my intralinear, 1096 is also decorated with G5635; we'll come back to that. 1096 (γίνομαι) is the infinitive "to become, come into existence, arise, be made." Note that He chose not to use the same word, even though some translations will translate this "was". The majority of translations say either "was born" or "existed".

G5635 indicates the second-aorist tense, middle-deponent (active) voice, infinitive. Aorist tense is normally translated as past tense, though strictly speaking it is outside the concept of time. In this case, the second (punctiliar) aorist implies that the statement was, is or will be true at some point without a concrete definition of that point. Active voice ties the subject to the action - in a generic sense, he did it, it was not inflicted upon him. "Abraham came into existence".

Coupling this with our discussion above, one could amplify this as follows: "At whatever time Abraham came into existence, at that time I already was and still am."

However, there is another aspect that we have to consider as well. The Jews were quite aware that God used the name or term "I am" to refer to Himself. (c.f Exodus 3:14) The Septuagint even translates this with the exact same Greek words: εγώ (G1473) ειμι (G1510). (In this case, my copy of LXX uses Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes - for 1510 in this verse, the code is V-PAPNS, which means "verb", "present tense", "active voice", "participle", "nominative", "singular" - effectively, exactly the same as above.) This explains their immediate response - they grabbed stones to kill Him, because they and He both knew that He had just claimed to be God and they couldn't or wouldn't accept that as truth.

The issue with this translation, then, is that it is rather weak linguistically. "have been" could be taken in a number of different ways - Jesus had previously existed, but subsequently did not, Jesus merely came into existence before Abraham, etc. None of these carry the weight of His claim - to be a member of the Godhead.

Answer 2

I’ve finally dug out my copy of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures — with references (1984 edition, which as far as I know is still the latest). It has a simple footnote on this phrase, referring the reader to Appendix 6F: “Jesus — In Existence Before Abraham”.

The appendix article begins with a series of quotes, which I here present:

From the Fourth/Fifth Century:

before Abraham was, I have been

Syriac. Edition: A Translation of the Four Gospels from the Syriac of the Siniatic Palimpset, by Agnes Smith Lewis, London, 1984.

From the Fifth Century:

before ever Abraham came to be, I was

Curetonian Syriac. Edition: The Curetonian Version of the Four Gospels, by F. Crawford Burkitt, Vol. 1, Cambridge, England, 1904.

From the Fifth Century:

before Abraham existed, I was

Syriac Peshitta. Edition: The Syriac New Testament Translated into English from the Peshitto Version, by James Murdock, seventh ed., Boston and London, 1896.

From the Fifth Century:

before Abraham came to be, I was

Georgian. Edition: “The Old Georgian Version of the Gospel of John”, by Robert P. Blake and Maurice Brière, published in Patrologia Orientalis, Vol. XXVI, fascicle 4, Paris, 1950.

From the Sixth Century:

before Abraham was born, I was

Ethiopic. Edition: Novum Testamentum ... Æiopice, by Thomas Pell Platt, revised by F. Praetorius, Leipzig, 1899.

The appendix article continues as follows. (I’m taking just the first three paragraphs, because (a) I don’t want to quote too much, and (b) the rest of the appendix article is more theological in nature, while the first three paragraphs are technical.)

The action expressed in Joh 8:58 started “before Abraham came into existence” and is still in progress. In such situation εἰμί, which is the first-person singular present indicative, is properly translated by the perfect indicative. Examples of the same syntax are found in Lu 2:48; 13:7; 15:29; Joh 5:6; 14:9; 15:27; Ac 15:21; 2Co 12:19; 1Jo 3:8.

Concerning this construction, A Grammar of the Idiom of the New Testament, by G. B. Winer, seventh edition, Andover, 1897, p. 267, says: “Sometimes the Present includes also a past tense (Mdv. 108), viz. when the verb expresses a state which commenced at an earlier period but still continues,—a state in its duration; as, Jno. xv. 27 [Greek text omitted because I don’t know how to type the diacritics], viii. 58 [ditto].”

Likewise, A Grammar of New Testament Greek, by J. H. Moulton, Vol. III, by Nigel Turner, Edinburgh, 1963, p. 62, says: “The Present which indicates the continuance of an action during the past and up to the moment of speaking is virtually the same as Perfective, the only difference being that the action is conceived as still in progress ... It is frequent in the N[ew] T[estament]: Lk 2⁴⁸ 13⁷ ... 15²⁹ ... Jn 5⁶ 8⁵⁸ ...”

Answer 3

In the book called ‘Truth In Translation - Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament” author Jason Debuhn looks at selected passages in 9 Bibles - The Amplified New Testament (AB); The Living Bible (LB); the New American Bible with Revised New Testament (NAB); THE NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE (NASB); the HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION (NIV); New Revised Standard Version Bible (RSV) New World Translation of the Holy Scripture (NWT) Good News Bible in Today's English Version (TEV); King James Bible (KJV)

In Chapter 9 entitled “Tampering with tenses” he discusses John 8:58. On page 104 he lists the various translations of that text

KJV Before Abraham was, l am. NRSV Before Abraham was, I am. NASB Before Abraham was born, I am. NIV Before Abraham was born, I am! TEV Before Abraham was born, 'I Am'. AB Before Abraham was born, I AM. NAB Before Abraham came to be, I AM. NWT Before Abraham came into existence, I have been. LB I was in existence before Abraham was ever born!

Straight after listing those renderings on page 104 and 105 he points out…

You may think that there is a particularly difficult or convoluted Greek clause underlying this mess of English. But that is not the case. The Greek reads: prin Abraam genesthai ego eimi. What Jesus says here is fine, idiomatic Greek. It can be rendered straightforwardly into English by doing what translators always do with Greek, namely, rearrange the word order into normal English order, adjust things like verbal tense complementarity into proper English expression. These steps of translation are necessary because Greek and English are not the same language and do not obey the same rules) grammar. Leaving the translation at the stage of a lexical ("interlinear”) rendering, which is one way to describe what most translations do here simply won't work. That is because Greek has more flexibility with word order than English does, and it can mix verbal tenses in a way English cannot

As a part of his summary on that verse he says on pages 110 and 111,112

In John 8:58, all translations except the LB break the first-personpronoun + verb ("I am") clause out of its relation to the syntax of the sentence, and place it artificially, and ungrammatically, at the end of the English sentence. These modern translations violate their standard practice of using correct English word order by in this case slavishly following the Greek word order, apparently under the influence of the KJV. Even the TEV, supposedly written in modern idiomatic English does this.

All translations except the LB and NWT also ignore the true relation between the verbs of the sentence, and produce a sentence that makes no sense in English. On top of this, we see the strange capitalization in the NAB, AB and TEV. These changes in the meaning of the Greek and in the normal procedure for translation point to a bias that has interfered with the work of the translators....

....The LB comes out as the most accurate translation of John 8:58. The translator avoided the lure of bias and the pressure of the KJV tradition. The NWT is second best in this case, because it understands the relation between the two verbs correctly, even though the influence of the KJV has led its translators to put the verb improperly at the end of the sentence. The average Bible reader might never guess that there was something wrong with the other translations, and might even assume that the error was to found in the LB and NWT. When all you can do is compare the English translations, and count them up like votes, the LB and NWT stick out as different in John 8:58. It is natural to assume that the majority are correct and the odd ones at fault. It is only when translations are checked against the original Greek, as they should be, that a fair assessment can be made, and the initial assumption can be seen to be wrong.

So the bottom line is then, that the NWT is correct in translating ego eimi as “I have been” except that they put it at the end of the sentence.

Answer 4

Is the NWT's translation of John 8:58 reasonable? It does not appear to be reasonable, that is to say, it does not appear to be based upon reasonable considerations. The New World Translation Study Bible offers the following reasons for translating the literal "I am" (ego eimi) of this passage as "I have been":

"I have been: The opposing Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming that he had 'seen Abraham,' although, as they said, Jesus was 'not yet 50 years old.' (John 8:57) Jesus’ response was to tell them about his prehuman existence as a mighty spirit creature in heaven before Abraham was born. Some claim that this verse identifies Jesus with God. They argue that the Greek expression used here, e·goʹ ei·miʹ (rendered 'I am' in some Bibles), is an allusion to the Septuagint rendering of Ex 3:14 and that both verses should be rendered the same way. (See study note on John 4:26.) In this context, however, the action expressed by the Greek verb ei·miʹ started 'before Abraham came into existence' and was still in progress. It is therefore properly translated 'I have been' rather than 'I am,' and a number of ancient and modern translations use wording similar to 'I have been.' In fact, at John 14:9, the same form of the Greek verb ei·miʹ is used to render Jesus’ words: 'Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me?' Most translations use a similar wording, showing that depending on context there is no valid grammatical objection to rendering ei·miʹ as 'have been.' (Other examples of rendering a present tense Greek verb using a present perfect tense verb are found at Luke 2:48; 13:7; 15:29; John 15:27; Acts 15:21; 2Co 12:19; 1 John 3:8.) Also, Jesus’ reasoning recorded at John 8:54, 55 shows that he was not trying to portray himself as being the same person as his Father."

The first reason set forth by the NWT Study Bible above for translating "ego eimi" (I am) as "I have been" is that "the opposing Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming that he had 'seen Abraham,' although, as they said, Jesus was 'not yet 50 years old.'" Why would this claim provoke the Jews to such anger? The answer is apparently found in the NWT's rendition of John 10:31-36, wherein it is related:

"Once again the Jews picked up stones to stone him. Jesus replied to them: 'I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?' The Jews answered him: 'We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.' Jesus answered them: 'Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? If he called "gods" those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified—do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?"

We are given to understand that in referring to himself as God's Son, the Jews considered Jesus to have blasphemed by making 'a god' of himself. However, the Study Bible presents a contrary interpretation when commenting upon why it was that the Jews had sought to kill Jesus as related in John 5:18, for here the Study Bible says: "the Jews...accused Jesus of attempting to make himself God’s equal by claiming God as his Father." So the careful reader is confronted with the following dichotomy when reading the NWT Study Bible translation and commentary in regard to these two passages: the Jews sought to kill Jesus for claiming that he was God's Son because they believed that by making this claim Jesus was making himself a lesser 'god' than God his Father, and they also believed that by making this claim he was claiming to be equal to God his Father. If John's text is saying both of these things, it becomes unintelligible to the reader. But if John 10:33 reads "we stone thee...for blasphemy, because thou, being a man, makest thyself God", then John 5:18 will harmonize with John 10:31-36. Otherwise it will not. The NWT Study Bible explanation for why the Jews had sought to stone Jesus as related in John 8:58, to wit, simply for claiming to have seen Abraham when he was not yet 50 years old, makes no sense whatsoever. Without the context of blasphemy as related in the other gospel passages, it would seem that the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for making the apparently insane claim that he had seen Abraham before he had ever been born. This is not a reasonable interpretation of this passage, or rather, it represents only a partial and incomplete interpretation of this passage, which needs further clarification to make any proper sense of it. The blasphemy passages cited above provide the necessary context for interpreting why it was that the Jews had wanted to stone Jesus as related in John 8:58, but as was shown above, the Study Bible is inconsistent in representing to the reader why it was that the Jews had wanted to kill Jesus, on the one hand representing the Jews as believing that Jesus had claimed that he was a lesser 'god' than his Father, and on the other hand representing the Jews as believing that Jesus had claimed that he was equal to God his Father.

The second reason set forth by the NWT Study Bible above for translating "ego eimi" (I am) as "I have been" in John 8:58 is that "Jesus’ response was to tell them about his prehuman existence as a mighty spirit creature in heaven before Abraham was born. Some claim that this verse identifies Jesus with God. They argue that the Greek expression used here, e·goʹ ei·miʹ (rendered 'I am' in some Bibles), is an allusion to the Septuagint rendering of Ex 3:14 and that both verses should be rendered the same way. (See study note on John 4:26.) In this context, however, the action expressed by the Greek verb ei·miʹ started 'before Abraham came into existence' and was still in progress. It is therefore properly translated 'I have been' rather than 'I am'."

The best way to test the validity of this statement is to see whether the NWT follows this translation principle in equivalent passages in John's Gospel and in other places in the 'Christian Greek Scriptures', as the Watchtower Society prefers to call them. Let us look at a few examples, specifically in respect to the words of Jesus himself.

John 8:12: "I am (ego eimi) the light of the world." (NWT) Jesus was the light of the world before he had made this statement, and his being the light of the world was still in progress when he had made that statement. Nevertheless, the NWT does not follow its own stated rule in translating this passage, which ought to have read "I have been the light of the world" if the NWT was being faithful to its own stated translation procedures.

John 10:12: "I am (ego eimi) the door for the sheep". (NWT) Jesus was the door for the sheep before he had made this statement, and his being the door for the sheep was still in progress when he had made that statement. Nevertheless, the NWT does not follow its own stated rule in translating this passage, which ought to have read "I have been the door for the sheep" if the NWT was being faithful to its own stated translation procedures.

John 14:6: "I am (ego eimi) the way and the truth and the life". (NWT) Jesus was the way and the truth and the life before he had made this statement, and his being the way and the truth and the life was still in progress when he had made that statement. Nevertheless, the NWT does not follow its own stated rule in translating this passage, which ought to have read "I have been the way and the truth and the life" if the NWT was being faithful to its own stated translation procedures.

The following passages are of even greater significance in regard to this matter, inasmuch as they involve the pre-existence of the Son of God:

John 10:36: "I am (ego eimi) God’s Son". (NWT) Christ was God's Son (i.e. the Son of God) before he had made this statement, and his being God's Son (i.e. the Son of God) was still in progress when he had made that statement. Nevertheless, the NWT does not follow its own stated rule in translating this passage, which ought to have read "I have been God's Son" if the NWT was being faithful to its own stated translation procedures.

We further observe that the NWT does not follow its own stated rule in translating other passages from the 'Christian Greek Scriptures' relating to Christ's pre-existence as the Son of God:

Mark 14:61-62: “'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' Jesus said: 'I am' (ego eimi)." (NWT) Christ was the Son of the Blessed One before he had made this statement, and his being the Son of the Blessed One was still in progress when he had made that statement. Nevertheless, the NWT does not follow its own stated rule in translating this passage, which ought to have read: "'Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?' Jesus said: 'I have been' (ego eimi)", if the NWT was being faithful to its own stated translation procedures.

Revelation 1:17: "I am (ego eimi) the First and the Last". (NWT) Christ was the First and the Last before he had made this statement, and his being the First and the Last was still in progress when he had made that statement. Nevertheless, the NWT does not follow its own stated rule in translating this passage, which ought to have read "I have been the First and the Last" if the NWT was being faithful to its own stated translation procedures.

A rule of translation procedure can only reasonably be described as a rule if it has general application in relevant cases. If it is applied only to one Biblical passage, and is not utilized when its terms of application are clearly indicated in reference to a number of other Biblical passages, it loses the character of a rule, and becomes nothing more than an arbitrary imposition upon the text on the part of the translator.

A last consideration in regard to the proper translation of John 8:58 is that of rendering the Greek into idiomatic English without losing the meaning of the original text. The NWT Study Bible appropriately references this translation concern in its discussion of John 8:58, but misapplies it to the passage in question. The Study Bible observes:

"In fact, at John 14:9, the same form of the Greek verb ei·miʹ is used to render Jesus’ words: 'Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me?' Most translations use a similar wording, showing that depending on context there is no valid grammatical objection to rendering ei·miʹ as 'have been.'”

In the passage cited above (Jn 14:9), the phrase "ego eimi" (I am) is connected to "with you men". In idiomatic English, "I have been" stresses the action of being "with you men" over a duration of time, i.e. "such a long time". It does not stand on its own in the sentence. As a general or even near universal rule, the phrase "I have been" standing on its own within a sentence does not constitute good idiomatic English. It is sometimes used in colloquial expression as a direct rejoinder to an accusatory statement, such as, for instance, "you have not been taking your medication" - "I have been", where the referent, i.e. "taking medication" is dropped in the response, and only implicitly acknowledged. To repeat, the phrase "I have been" does not stand alone in a sentence without a proper referent in English usage. The phrase "I have been" must relate to something, to a state or condition or to an activity: "I have been sick", "I have been working", etc. With reference to John 8:58, one cannot assert existence merely by stating "I have been" in good idiomatic English. On the other hand, to state "I am", is equivalent to stating "I exist", in idiomatic English. We observe this to be the case in Neil Diamond's famous song "I am, I said". This statement is recognizable English usage. "I have been, I have said" would not constitute idiomatic English usage. Now to relate this discussion with reference to English grammar to Jewish theology, which is the context of discussion for John 8:58, only a being who has eternal existence can state "I am" as a present state of affairs in all times and places. If Christ had intended to say that he had come into existence prior to Abraham's having come into existence, this notion of a prior origin on the part of Christ could not be rendered into idiomatic English by rendering the verse as "before Abraham came into existence, I have been". Anyone who is conversant in the English language upon reading this passage will naturally ask, 'I have been...what'? 'I have been communing with the Father'? 'I have been creating the world'? None of these activities are indicated within this gospel passage. Only that of prior existence. If Christ had meant to say, "I have been existing" in John 8:58, as the NWT Study Bible would have us believe, he would not have used the phrase "I am" in the Greek original, for "I am" is a present tense indicator. The fact that the NWT does not translate "ego eimi" (I am) as "I have been" in any of the passages cited above (and many more could be adduced), especially in regard to those where Christ makes reference to his pre-existence as the Son of God, is very telling, because to do so would make for a bad idiomatic rendition of the gospel in English usage.

To sum up matters, the NWT translation of John 8:58 is not reasonable, for three primary reasons:

1. The passages used to support the NWT translation of John 8:58, i.e. John 5:18 and John 10:31-36, as they have been translated and commented upon in the NWT Study Bible, present us with an unintelligible text, for they leave us with the contradictory notion that the Jews had sought to kill Christ for claiming to be the Son of God because this indicated to them that he was claiming to be a lesser god who was not equal to God (Jn 10:33), and also that he was claiming to be equal to God (Jn 5:18).

2. The translation rule advocated by the NWT Study Bible, which states that "ego eimi" (I am) should properly be rendered into idiomatic English as "I have been" whenever this phrase indicates that an action which had started in the past continues on into the present, is ignored on multiple occasions in the NWT of the Holy Scriptures, most strikingly in all other passages where Christ speaks of his pre-existence as the Son of God, i.e. (Mark 14:62; Jn 10:36; Rev 1:17). A rule that is observed primarily in the breach is no rule at all, and amounts to nothing more than an arbitrary imposition upon the text.

3. In English usage, the phrase "I have been" without a proper referent (i.e. "I have been...what"?) is poor idiomatic expression, and cannot be validly substituted in place of the original "I am" without distorting the meaning of the text. "Before Abraham came into existence, I am" informs the reader that Christ claimed present existence in all times and places. "Before Abraham came into existence, I have been" leaves the reader wondering what it was that Christ was claiming to have been up to prior to the time of Abraham - i.e. "I have been"...what - communing with the Father, creating the world, who knows? Once more, we are confronted with the problem of an unintelligible text.

In conclusion, inasmuch as the NWT Study Bible's translation of John 8:58 is based upon contradictory material presented to the reader at John 5:18 and John 10:31-36 of the NWT in regard to Jewish perceptions of Christ's claim to be the Son of God, and given the fact that the NWT Study Bible's stated translation methodology in regard to this passage is consistently flouted when translating equivalent passages of the 'Christian Greek Scriptures', especially those having to do with Christ's affirmation of his pre-existence as the Son of God, and given the further fact that the NWT Study Bible's translation of this passage renders the original Greek into non-idiomatic English, the passage in question, to wit, John 8:58, fails the test of constituting a reasonable and valid translation of the Greek original, for in the final analysis it presents the reader with an unintelligible text.

Answer 5

It's not just reasonable, but according to Greek scholar Kenneth McKay, those who have only "a smattering of Greek" and see some sort of "magic" in the words use the words "I am" and not some form of the English perfect (e.g. have been). See the article, Kenneth McKay, "I AM" in John's Gospel and also a link to the paper online.

Kenneth L. McKay graduated with honors in Classics from the Universities of Sydney and Cambridge, taught Greek in universities and theological colleges in Nigeria, New Zealand, and England, who taught at the Australian National University for 26 years, has written numerous articles on ancient Greek syntax, as well as authored a book on Classical Attic, Greek Grammar for Students, and A New Syntax of the Verb in "New Testament Greek: an aspectual approach", provides the following in relation to the alleged "true parallel between Exodus 3:14 (LXX) and John 8:58"

"I am" in John's Gospel

The Expository Times, 1996, page 302 BY K. L. MCKAY, MA, FORMERLY OF THE AUSTRALIAN UNIVERSITY

It has become fashionable among some preachers and writers to relate Jesus' use of the words "I am" in the Gospel according to John, in all, or most, of their contexts, to God's declaration to Moses in Exodus 3:14, and to expound the passages concerned as if the words themselves have some kind of magic in them. Some who have no more than a smattering of Greek attribute the "magic" to the Greek words ego eimi. 1 I wish briefly to draw attention to the normality of the Greek in all such passages, and the unlikelihood of the words ego eimi being intended to suggest any special significance of this kind.

It is, of course, perfectly reasonable to draw attention to Jesus' claims about himself by noting the "I am" element common to them: 'I am the bread of life' (6:35), 'I am the light of the world' (8:12), 'I am the gate/door' (10:7), 'I am the good shepherd' (10:11), 'I am the resurrection and the life' (11:25), 'I am the way, the truth and the life' (14:6), 'I am the true vine' (15:1). These statements give important insights into the identity and work of Jesus, and we can be challenged to decide whether the words "I am" in them convey truth, delusion, deceit, or something else.

In each case the Greek words used are ego eimi, the pronoun being emphatic (as is usually appropriate in beginning a startling fresh statement, answering a question of identity or personal activity, and in some other circumstances), and the verb, also slightly emphatic, [2] being the normal use of the verb 'to be' as a copula, the means of linking the subject with the significant words, 'bread', 'light', etc., which occur as noun complements. The same principle applies when the complement is an adjective or an adverb or adverbial phrase used adjectivally.

With variations of context the degree of emphasis may vary, and either the pronoun or the verb may be omitted. In the parallelism of 8:23 pronoun and verb are separated: humeis ek ton kato este, ego ek ton ano eimi, but in the immediately following parallel statement the introduction of a negative brings the verb forward (thus also giving extra emphasis to toutou): ego ouk eimi ek tou kosmou toutou. In 14:10 the verb is omitted, because it is understood from the rest of the sentence: ego en tw patri kai ho pater en emoi estin. [3] In 14:20 a development from the same statement, also in a hoti clause, omits the copula entirely: ego en tw patri mou kai humeis en emoi kagw en humin. In 10:36 the personal pronoun is not needed for emphasis, and is omitted: huios tou theou eimi. In 7:34 and 7:36 the clause structure demands the postposition of the subject: hopou eimi ego humeis ou dunasthe elthein.

Although the natural English translations differ, there are two contexts of this kind in which Jesus uses the words ego eimi alone to identify himself: in 6:20, where the disciples are afraid of the apparition they see walking on the water, and Jesus reassures them by identifying himself, quite naturally, with these words, which translate into English as "It is I" and in 18:5, while Jesus acknowledges that he is Jesus of Nazareth by speaking the same words, which are naturally translated into English as "I am he".

The syntactic difference between them is that in the former ego is the complement, the unexpressed subject being something equivalent to 'what you see', and in the latter ego is the subject, the unexpressed complement being 'Jesus of Nazareth'. In both these passages ego eimi is the natural Greek response [4] in the circumstances, as may be seen in 9:9, where the man cured of blindness uses exactly the same words to acknowledge his identity. The dramatic reaction of the arresting party in 18:6 is readily explained if we note that the confident authority of Jesus' presence was such that he defeated the merchants in the temple (2:15), and he simply walked away when the crowd was intent on throwing him over the brow of the hill near Nazareth (Luke 4:28-30).

The verb 'to be' is used differently, in what is presumably its basic meaning of 'be in existence', in John 8:58: prin Abraam genesthai ego eimi, [5] which would be most naturally translated 'I have been in existence since before Abraham was born', [6] if it were not for the obsession with the simple words 'I am'. If we take the Greek words in their natural meaning, as we surely should, the claim to have been in existence for so long is in itself a staggering one, quite enough to provoke the crowd's violent reaction.

For the emphasis on the words 'I am' we need to look back to God's words to Moses in Exodus 3:14, 'I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: "I am has sent me to you".' The passage in its Hebrew form has been discussed by many commentators as something of a problem, with possibilities that the verb could mean 'I am', 'I will be', 'I become', or 'I will become', and the pronoun 'that', 'who', 'what', or even 'because'. Some see a need to emend the text, and some stress various critical principles as basic to its interpretation. A few refer to the Septuagint translation of the passage as relevant for understanding it. [7]

Now the Septuagint was the translation done for the benefit of the increasing number of Greek-speaking Jews a couple of centuries earlier, so naturally it is the version of the Old Testament that is normally referred to in the New Testament, and certainly the one most likely to be known to the early readers of John's Gospel.

It's translation of Exodus 3:14 follows the sense (as understood by the Jewish translators) rather than the exact form of the Hebrew: ego eimi ho wn ... Ho wn apestalke me, which translates into English literally as 'I am the being one',' [8] and 'the being one has sent me'. Now the words ego eimi here are the emphatic pronoun and the copula as in most of the passages cited above; and ho wn represents a relative clause which in its first occurrence would be hos eimi and in its second occurrence would be hos esti, [9] but the most natural translation into English of both would be 'the one who is (who really exists)',' [10] the verb having its basic meaning (and being so accented), and not being a mere copula In neither is there any possibility of inserting an emphatic ego.

So the emphatic words used by Jesus in the passages referred to above are perfectly natural in their contexts, and they do not echo the words of Exodus 3:14 in the normally quoted Greek version. Thus they are quite unlikely to have been used in the New Testament to convey that significance, however much the modern English versions of the relevant passages, following the form of the Hebrew words, may suggest it.

Footnotes:

1 I have seen one such speaker try to impress his audience by writing the words on a blackboard, only to demonstrate that he was ignorant of even the simplest details of Greek. [2] It's position is un-emphatic, but the degree of emphasis could be reduced by its omission, which would make no difference to the meaning. The omission of the copula is quite common in Greek, especially, but not exclusively, in the third person. [3] The fact that this is a reported statement, in a hoti clause, does not affect the grammar, but only the degree of emphasis. [4] In translation, if as is likely, the original reply was the equivalent in Aramaic. [5] Note that with this meaning the verb is differently accented in Greek [ E)GW\ E)MI/ instead of E)GW\ E)IMI ]. [6] For the construction see "K. L. McKay, A New Syntax of the Verb in New Testament Greek: An aspectual approach" (Peter Lang, 1994), 4.2.4. [7] For extensive modern discussion of the problems of interpretation see Brevard S. Childs, Exodus: A Commentary (OTL, SCM, 1974) and John 1. Durham, Exodus (WBC 3, Word, 1987). See also Martin Noth, Exodus (OTL, SCM, 2nd ed. 1966); U. Cassuto, Commentary on the Book of Exodus (Magnes Press), 1. P. Hyatt, Exodus (NCB, Oliphants, 1971); Alan Cole, Exodus (TC, IVP, 1973); J. W. Wevers, Notes on the Greek Text of Exodus (Scholars Press, 1990). [8] As Noth mentions in a footnote. [9] Cf. the Vulgate translation of 14b: Qui est misit me ad vos. [10] English has lost the full range of inflections, and the relative pronoun is now treated as if it were always third person.

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Answer 6

A lot of answers here... I have skipped over some so I hope I am not repeating an already used reference.

Might I answer this question quite simply by quoting

1. JW's own Interlinear online

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/kingdom-interlinear-greek-translation/books/john/8/

εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς᾿Αμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν᾿Αβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼIεἰμ

Said to them, Amen amen I am saying to You Before Abraham to become I am.

2. The Latin Vulgate "Latin version of the Holy Bible, and largely the result of the labors of St Jerome (Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus), who was commissioned by Pope Damasus I in 382 A.D. to make a revision of the old Latin translations" vulgate.org

dixit eis Iesus amen amen dico vobis antequam Abraham fieret ego sum

Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.

3. Codex Sinaticus (A.D 330-360) "Handwritten well over 1600 years ago, the manuscript contains the Christian Bible in Greek, including the oldest complete copy of the New Testament" codexsinaticus.org

κεν ϲε · ειπεν αυ τοιϲ ο ιϲ αμην αμη λεγω ϋμιν · πριν αβρααμʼ γενεϲθαι

58 Jesus said to them: Verily, verily, I say to you, before Abraham came into being, I am.

Answer 7

The NWT translation of John 8:58 is not reasonable, since it mangles the tense of the word εἰμί (Present/Active/Indicative/1st Person Singular - "I am"), which they don't do for Paul's statement in Acts 17:28, where they have:

For by him we have life and move and exist, even as some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his children.’

The word the NWT gives as "exist" here, is ἐσμεν (Present/Active/Indicative/1st Person Plural - "we are"). If they were consistent, then they would have at least given "I exist" in John 8:58.

Given the controversial nature of Jesus' teaching about himself -- to the Jews then, and others since -- it is "Most, truly" clear that he was making a reference to the continuous nature of his existence, as did Yahweh in Exodus 3:14.

Answer 8

Accepted Lexical Use
The NWT rendering of the verb εἰμί as past tense "...have been” deviates from uses found in the New Testament and other early Christian Literature. For example, the BDAG gives eleven primary meanings all stating some type of current existence like be, with, is live, something taking place at the time, and the like. About John 8:58 it states:

❶ be, exist, be on hand...Of Christ, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί before Abraham was born, I am 8:58 (on the present εἰμι cp. Parmenides 8, 5: of the Eternal we cannot say ἦν οὐδ ἕσταὶ, only ἕστὶν; Ammonius Hermiae [Comm, in Aristotle IV 5 ed. ABusse 1897] 6 p. 172; in Timaeus we read that we must not say of the gods τὸ ἦν ἤ τὸ ἕσταὶ μεταβολῇς τὶνος ὃντα σημαντὶκἀ, μὸνον δἐ τὸ ἕστὶ='was' or 'will be', suggesting change, but only 'is'; Ps 89.2; DBall 'I am’ in John's Gospel [JSNT Suppl. 124] '96.)¹

Similarly, Thayer’s: says “passages in which the idea of the verb preponderates, and some person or thing is said to exist by way of distinction from things non-existent.”²

Jesus uses ἐγὼ εἰμί 3 times (8:12, 24, 28) leading up to His final claim. In discussing the first use without a predicate (8:24 which is rendered as "I am the one" in the NWT), C.K. Barrett says:

The absolute use of ἐγώ εἰμι at [6.20; 18.6][8]...can readily be understood from the context; here however it seems impossible to supply an appropriate complement from the context. Moreover the question that follows (σὺ τίς εἶ; v. 25) suggests that the words were not plain to the hearers. ἐγώ εἰμι without compliment (see also vv. 28, 58 and 13.19) is hardly a Greek expression. It occurs not infrequently in the LXX and on this basis (rather than on direct translation by John of a Semitic original) the words should be understood. In the LXX they render אני הוא ('ani hu', literally "I (am) he"), which occurs especially in the words of God himself, and there is a particularly close parallel to the present passage in Isaiah 43.10, ἵνα γνῶτε καὶ πιστεύσητε καὶ συνῆτε ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι (אני הוא).

Similar passages occur at Deuteronomy 32.39; Isaiah 41:4; 43.13; 46.4; 48.12. In the Isaiah passages the meaning of the Hebrew is apparently "I am (forever) the same" with perhaps an allusion to the name יהוה (YHVH) given in Exodus 3:14-16;...The context demands a similar meaning for the Greek, though ἐγώ εἰμι is in itself (as Greek) a meaningless expression. The Lord, the first and with the last, is the eternal one. The εἰμι, that is to say, is a properly continuous tense, implying neither beginning nor end of existence. This meaning is particularly appropriate to v. 58 (where see the note), and appropriate also to the present verse, where it reinforces the assertion that Jesus belongs to the eternal heavenly world (ἐκ τῶν ἄνω). We may say then that ἐγώ εἰμι, thus understood, (i) indicates the eternal being of Jesus; (ii) thereby, and in itself, places Jesus on a level with God (ἐγώ εἰμι usually is found in the LXX on the lips of God himself; at Isaiah 47.8; Zephaniah 2.15 it is arrogantly used by men who put themselves in the place of God; and both אני and הוא were used as divine names.³

A good translation should bring out the emphasis of current existence, as the NWT's own treatment of ἐγὼ εἰμί elsewhere demonstrates is correct:

ἐγὼ εἰμί in the NWT:
I am - 32 times 
I am he - 9 times
I - 6 times
I have been - 1 time.

Unsupported Claim of Unique Grammar
Of the 48 times ἐγὼ εἰμί occurs in the New Testament, only in John 8:58 does the NWT deviate from the meaning described in Lexicons. The 1981 printing of the 1971 Revision has a footnote explaining the translation decision:

I have been=ἐγώ εἰμι (e-go' ei-mi') after the a'orist infinitive clause πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι and hence properly rendered in the perfect tense indicative. It is not the same as (ho ohn meaning "The Being" or "The I Am") at Exodus 3:14 LXX.

No scholarly reference or grammatical rule is cited in support of this claim.⁴In fact, as Daniel B. Wallace notes, there is not a single perfect tense use of εἰμί in the NT:

This argument has several flaws in it (1) The fact that the present tense follows an aorist infinitive has nothing to do with how it should be rendered. In fact historical presents are usually wedged in between aorist (or imperfect) indicatives, not infinitives. (2) If this is a historical present, it is apparently the only historical present in the NT that uses the equative verb εἰμί. The burden of proof, therefore, lies with the one who sees εἰμί as ever being used as a historical present. (3) If this is a historical present, it is apparently the only historical present in the NT that is in other than the third person.⁵

Wallace also notes how the NWT appears to reveal the motive for their translation:

In effect, this is a negative admission that if ἐγὼ εἰμί is not a historical present, then Jesus is here claiming to be the one who spoke to Moses at the burning bush, the I AM, the eternally existing One, Yahweh (cf. Exodus 3:14 in the LXX ἐγὼ εἰμί ὁ ὢν).⁶

In other words, the NWT committee recognizes if ἐγὼ εἰμί is treated as it is everywhere else in the NT, Jesus' words might be taken as a claim He is YHVH who spoke to Moses, an understanding consistent with crowd's reaction:

So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple. (John 8:59 ESV)

Additionally, the understanding of the aorist perfect is contrary to New Testament grammar of this tense (also known as the dramatic or historical perfect):

...is rarely used in a rhetorical manner to describe an event in a highly vivid way. The aorist/dramatic perfect is "used as a simple past tense without concern for present consequences..." In this respect, it shares a kinship with the historical present. There are but a handful of examples of this in the NT, occurring only in narrative contexts. Thus this use is informed by contextual intrusions (narrative). The key to detecting a dramatic perfect is the absence of any notion of existing results.⁷

Jesus' use is not in narrative and the issue is the present consequences of the phrase, which the NWT note states was translated specifically to give the appearance of differing from Exodus 3:14.

Spoken Words
In the actual event "ἐγώ εἰμι" were Jesus' final words. A proper translation of a speech is to convey what was actually said. This is true whether the speech was factual or delivered using correct grammar. If the words mean "I am" as is obvious from the NWT explanation, the Lexicons, and use elsewhere, then "I have been" is unreasonable because it is an interpretation. Even if the phrase is unintelligible the reasonable treatment is to report what was said. Thus the NWT treatment also robs the text of a important dynamic: misunderstanding something Jesus says.

The Fourth Gospel is known for using words and phrases which have more than one meaning. This dynamic leads to "misunderstandings" which play a significant role in all Jesus' teachings. The issue is not whether Jesus said I am: that is undisputed. The questions are: (1) what did Jesus mean (2) what did the crowd think Jesus meant. His speech raises questions which are still debated today. Therefore, it is unreasonable to replace the literal meaning with something whose sole purpose is to remove a tension and/or conflict present in the original text.

A major deficiency in the NWT translation is the actual words are not conveyed. Many scholars agree "I am" in John 8:58 is not a use of the Divine Name or a reference to Exodus 3:14. Thus it is unreasonable to fail to report what Jesus said. The reasonable treatment is to report what was said and use the footnote to explain the use is not the Name or connected to Exodus 3:14.

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<sub>Notes:
1. Fredrick William Danker, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, The University Chicago Press, 2000, p. 283
2. Thayers Greek Lexicon
3. C.K. Barrett, The Gospel According to St. John, S.P.C.K, 1962, p. 282-283
4. In addition the NWT does not disclose the individuals who worked on the translations and/or revisions.
5. Daniel B. Wallace, Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament, Zondervan, 1996, p. 530 . [Wallace's is responding to an article by Dennis Light in July-December 1971 volume of the Bible Collector in which Light argues in support of the NWT position.]
6. Ibid., p. 531
7. Ibid., p. 578</sub>

Answer 9

Everyone seems to be missing an obvious and important point on this verse. Trying to prove that it should be translated as "I am" over "I have been" is not the issue. The issue is word order. It is incorrect to translate the verse "before Abraham was born, I am". why? Because it is left in an interlinear form. Therefore, this is ultimately not an English translation, and the verse is left incomplete.

If you have the Living Bible (which is in favor of the Trinity), it says “The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born!”.

This is the correct way to read the verse. Why? Because the "subject", that is the person talking, Jesus, when he says "I am", is now moved to the beginning of the sentence.

The word order in Greek at John 8:58 is "Predicate + Subject + Verb" but we must rearrange the word order when we translate to English, which is "Subject + Verb + Predicate/Object ". You can compare the same word order found in John 14:9, and John 15:27, which all other bibles suddenly remember how to translate from Greek to English.

Greek Scholar notes: Kenneth Mckay, says that John 8:58 "would be most naturally translated 'I have been in existence since before Abraham was born', if it were not for the obsession with the simple words 'I am'" (K. L. McKay, 'I am' in John's Gospel, Expository Times 1996: 302-303).

As for the implication that Jesus is God in this verse, I believe that the context bears out that this is not his claim, just from reading around the verse. Remember Jesus is speaking of God being his Father. This is a very bold claim, referring to YHWH in such a personal way has never been done before, nor by any prophet. Note what Jesus says at John 8:38 and 40 that they are already seeking to kill him at this point, well before vs 58. He then accuses them in vs 44 "You are of your father the devil". All of this builds from Jesus' claim that he is from God, and that God is his father.

If you go back to John 5:18, it reads "For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God"-NASB

We know that Jesus is the Son of God, him claiming that God was his father was in their eyes enough to enrage them. John 19:7: "The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."-NASB

So going back to John 8:58 if Jesus says "I have been in existence since before Abraham was born", K. Mckay says that "The claim to have been in existence for so long is in itself a staggering one, quite enough to provoke the crowd's violent reaction" (page 302).

Answer 10

The following are your own words and comments Thomas Pearne. "You never gave the reference about Jewish law. And claiming to be God's son is not the same as claiming to be God. Angels are sons of God too." I want to address this statement of yours in detail.

Now, I'm going to say first that the Jews knew all the time what Jesus was claiming and that's why they accused Him of blasphemy. Or to put it another way, "What did Jesus say to the Jews that caused them to want to kill Him for blasphemy? At John 5:17, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." Verse 18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." When Joseph and Mary His mother were looking for Jesus at Luke 2:49 Jesus says, "Why is it you were looking for Me? Did you not know I had to be about MY FATHER'S affairs.?

What did Jesus say at John 8:58, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham sprang into existence, I am." The Jews reacted by saying, "Therefore the Jews picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."

John 10:30, "I and the Father We are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him." Jesus was claiming in this verse that He and His Father are one in nature. The Jews understood what Jesus was saying. It goes without saying that Jesus and His Father are also one in purpose in protecting the sheep but the immediate context has to do with Jesus claiming to be one in nature or essence with His Father.

What do the Jews say at verse 31, "The Jews's took up stones again to stone Him." Verse 32, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" Verse 33, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out God."

Now, the Jews were under Roman rule and they could not have a trial unless they first got permission from the Romans. This is why they went to Pilate and even though Pilate found no fault in Jesus he gave into the Jews demands. At John 19:6, "When therefore the chief priests and the officers say Him, they cried out saying, Crucify crucify! Pilate said to them, "Take Him yourselves and crucify Him, for I find no guilt in Him." Verse 7, "The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to died because (or why), He made Himself out the Son of God." The law that the Jews accused Jesus of breaking is found at Leviticus 24:16.

At Matthew 16:13, Jesus ask His disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is? Verse 15, "But who do you say that I am?" At verse 16 Peter says, "Thou are the Christ/Messiah, the Son of the living God." Jesus says at verse 17, "Blessed are you, Simon because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven."

So now we get back to the trial at Matthew 26:63 and notice the question the high priest ask Jesus. "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ/Messiah, the Son of God?" In other words, Caiaphas asked if Jesus was "The Messiah, the Son of (God)" thus asking the ONE person of Jesus if Jesus was BOTH the Messiah and the Son of God, committing him to the view of a divine Messiah. At Luke 22:70, Jesus said, "Yes, I am."

At Matthew 26:65, Then the high priest tore his robes saying, "He has blasphemed!" What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, you have now heard the blasphemy." It should be noted that claiming to be the Messiah is not a blasphemous offense. People have been claiming to be the Messiah even before Jesus to this very day.

The charge of blasphemy was not false. They rightly convicted Jesus of blasphemy--NOT because He blasphemed, but because they did not believe He is who He said He was.

I want you to notice something. When Jesus ask Peter who He was, Peter replied, You are the Christ/Messiah the Son of God. The high priest ask Jesus, "Are you the Christ/Messiah, the Son of God." At John 20:30-31 it says, "Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book." Verse 31, "but these have been written that you may believe, THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST/MESSIAH, THE SON OF GOD; and that believing you may have life in His name."

I also want to address the Jewish "son of" idiom. First of all the Jews new or understand what Jesus was claiming by asking Jesus to swear as to Him being the Son of God. So why did they ask Him that question since they themselves believe there are sons of God as well? The Jews have an "idiom" known as the "son of" idiom and the Bible is filled with these idioms. Sons of the prophets refer to men belonging to a prophetic band. (1 Kings 20:35). Son of goldsmiths, a goldsmith. In the New Testament we have "Sons of disobedience, Ephesians 2:2, are those characterized by disobedience. Or "Son of perdition, (John 17:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:3) Judas the lost one and the son of destruction known as the antichrist.

At (Nehemiah 3:8) Both "Son of God" and "Son of Man" are Messianic titles. Jesus himself authenticates these titles by claiming them for Himself. The "Son of Man" was the title derived from the figure who appears in Daniel 7. I've already explained how the "Son of God" idiom which was understood by the Jews in what Jesus said to the Jews. John 5:18, being equal to His "OWN" Father. John 10:30, "I and the Father, we are one." That is one in nature. And at John 19:7, "He ought to die because He made Himself out the Son of God." Bottom line, the Jews and others simply did not believe what Jesus claimed to be, unfortunately to their eternal detriment.

Answer 11

In the context of a prior persecution of Jesus, when there it is clear to the Jews that He is a blasphemer and makes himself equal to God, i.e. making himself Jahve (Jehovah) (John 5:18), it is only reasonable to conclude that for majority of the listeners Jesus' wording of "before Abraham was, I am" was not something totally unexpected, but confirmed their suspicion and even conviction that Jesus is a blasphemer and in the "I am" implied a sacrilegious theology;

Even if (let us suppose hypothetically) Jesus did not put this meaning, so to say, grammatically, but only indicated His pre-existence before Abraham's birth, the Jews who already knew and suspected Him being a blasphemer, would definitely see in the "I am" this theological implication. Who on earth would have reasoned about the subtleties of Hebrew or Greek grammar, when there was a clear terrifying expectation of blasphemy of Jesus equaling himself to God on the part of the enraged Jews immediately after the words "ἐγὼ εἰμί" were uttered? Since the expectation was of this concrete theological blasphemy, then the "ἐγὼ εἰμί" would definitely bear for them this blasphemous implication rather than a mitigated and lessened one of Jesus simply making himself a pre-existent but not eternally existent being.

Thus at least a conspicuous majority of them would have naturally seen a blasphemous theology in Jesus' "I am". Moreover, Jesus apparently makes a direct allusion to Psalm 89:2 (or 90:2 according to an alternative numeration), which in the Greek Septuagint reads:

πρὸ τοῦ ὄρη γενηθῆναι καὶ πλασθῆναι τὴν γῆν καὶ τὴν οἰκουμένην, καὶ ἀπὸ τοῦ αἰῶνος καὶ ἕως τοῦ αἰῶνος σὺ εἶ

Before mountains came to being, and earth and the world was formed, and from eternity to eternity, You are.

The verb γενηθῆναι is the same as in John 8:58, and the "You are" has the same existential import as the "I am", meaning "You exist", and therefore also the "from eternity to eternity" is automatically implicated in Jesus' words, which makes him identical with Jahve (Jehovah). (In later theology this identity was expressed in the theological notion of "essence" - οὐσία which is absolutely identical in the Father and the Son, whereas the no less outspoken difference between Jesus and the Father by the notion of "person" - ὑπόστασις, which they have absolutely uniquely and uninterminglably).

It was just impossible for Jewish religious experts present at Jesus' address not to see a clear and intentional allusion to the Septuagint text of the Psalm 89:2 and thus their rage is clearly related to Jesus making himself eternally existing, just as God. It cannot be more clear. And for sure Jews saw this quite unequivocally.

Also later they had to admit directly: "we do not want to kill you because of good deeds, but because of being a man you make yourself God" (John 10:30-33), now nobody is God who is not eternally existing, and thus in Jew's belief Jesus claimed of Himself just that - the eternal existence. Hence the translation of the John 8:58 provided by NWT is a bad, biased and eisegesitic one, while King James' version is plain and good: "Before Abraham was, I am".

Answer 12

What did Jesus likely say in John 8:58?

Professor of Religious Studies , Jason David BeDuhn of Northern Arizona University in his book "TRUTH IN TRANSLATION Accuracy and Bias of the New Testament" compares nine major English translations and list them as follows:

In Chapter ten "TEMPERING WITH THE TENSES" deals exclusively with John 8:58 analyzes grammar and syntax of this verse and other similar verses.

KJV NRSV NASB NIV TEV AB all translate as the NAB "I AM "

NAB before Abraham came to be, I AM

NW before Abraham came into existence,I have been.

LB I was in existence before Abraham was ever born.

Quote "What is going on here? You may think that there is a particularly difficult or convoluted Greek clause underlying this mess in English. But that is not the case. The Greek reads "prin Abraham genesthai ego eimi". What is Jesus says here is fine idiomatic Greek. It can be rendered straightforwardly into English by doing what translators always do with Greek, namely, rearrange the word into normal English order,and adjust things like verbal tense complimentary into proper expression"unquote.

The chapter runs into ten pages, the concluding paragraph is as follows.

"The LB comes out as the most accurate translation of John 8:58. The translator avoided the lure of bias and the pressure of the KJV tradition. The NW is second best in this case, because it understands the relation between the two verbs correctly, even though the influence of the KJV has led its translators to but the verb improperly at the end of the sentence. The average Bible reader might never guess that there was something wrong with the other translations, and might even assume that the error is found in the LB and NW When all you can do is compare the English translations and count them up like votes,the LB and NW stick out different in John 8:58. It is natural to assume that the majority are correct and the odd ones at fault. It is only when translations are checked against original Greek, as they should be, that a fair assessment can be made, and the initial assumption can be seen to be wrong".

There those that say Exodus 3:14 corresponds with "I am" in John 8:58, however a quick look at the Septuagint show s this claim to be a mistake. The Septuagint at Exodus 3:14 has God say "ego eimi ho ohn" translated " I am the being" or "I am one that exists". "I am " sets up the title identification God uses of himself, it is not itself a title. Separating "I am" off as if it were to meant to stand alone is an interpretive sleight-of-hand, totally distorting the role the phrase plays in the whole sentence, either in the Greek Septuagint version of Exodus 3:14 or in John 8:58

At John 8:58, most translations have Jesus using the expression “I am” in connection with himself, saying, “Before Abraham was, I am.” However here the expression is quite different from the one used in Exodus 3:14. as explained above. Here Jesus did not use it as a name or title but simply as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Thus, according to

LB I was in existence before Abraham was ever born.

NWT before Abraham came into existence,I have been.

“I existed before Abraham was born!” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am.” Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink.

“I was alive before Abraham was born!” The Simple English Bible.

Answer 13

Attempting to identify Jesus with Jehovah some say that ego eimi is the equivalent of Ani hu (I Am He) which is used by God.However, it is to be noted that this Hebrew expression is also used by man, as in 1Chronicles21:17. Further attempting to identify Jesus with Jehovah some try to use Ex.3:14 which reads ego eimi ho on. Which means I am The Being or I am The Existing One. This attempt cannot be sustained because the expression in Ex.3:14 is different from the expression in John 8:48. Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures Jehovah and Jesus are never identified as the same person.The earlier Hebrew Scriptures quote is from the LXX.