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FelixLXX
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The shepherd and the king may or may not be the same character. If they are the same character they're different aspects or life-stages of him.

Either way, it might be too disrespectful to call a king your boiler-uncle.

Seeing "love" in the translation the OP may have assumed it's standing for a neutral word. But what has probably happened is the translators have encountered a truly peculiar idiom of Ancient Hebrew erotic poetry (which is a genre we have about one surviving example of!) and chosen the safest option.

We can tell from the context it's a term of endearment. Outside love poetry, we can tell it means uncle. So it's male gendered.

We know from our own love songs that terms of endearment - like 'Baby' 'Angel' or 'Pumpkin' - have hugely complicated registers and link listeners' minds in to different stages and footings of relationship negotiations - in different social and cultural milieux - and with this continuously shifting due to youth fashion.

For some reason, in this one poem that could date from anywhere between 300BC and 1000BC, "boiler-uncle" is the term that nails a relationship like this.

But since we aren't the teenagers of 2000 to 3000 years ago, we can't tell which historic relationship, or even which sort of relationship, this song is about - or to what extent it's also being wisdom-literature. If it's a love-song that's really about holy wisdom then any of the pet-names and images might be ironic. And when they are it would probably go right over our heads.

The LXX's translators probably had an easier time of it than we do, being culturally, linguistically, and historically closer:-


Song of Solomon 1:7 - - שֶׁ֤אָהֲבָה֙ - - ὃν ἠγάπησεν ἡ ψυχή μου [different word!]

Song of Solomon 2:16 - - דּוֹדִ֥י - - ἀδελφιδός μου

Song of Solomon 6:2 - - דּוֹדִי֙ - - Ἀδελφός μου κατέβη (some MSS have Ἀδελφιδός)

Song of Solomon 6:3 - - לְדוֹדִי֙ וְדוֹדִ֣י - - τῷ ἀδελφιδῷ μου καὶ ἀδελφιδός


But their gloss word - ἀδελφιδός - has the same problem, the only example in Lidell & Scott is the LXX's translation of the Song of Songs. "ιδ" usually indicates sons, so this might be a nephew. Or it might have sounded close to the diminutive form: ἀδελφιδιόν (=little brother).

https://archive.org/details/greekenglishlex00lidduoft/page/20/mode/2up

So that doesn't tell us much more, except that the LXX's translators:-

  • didn't take "uncle" literally

  • replaced it with another derived-sense family relationship

  • replaced it with (something like) a little brother or nephew (so it's not age-specific or implying an age-gap)

  • didn't make any use of the Hebrew root word 'to boil' or worry about δελφύς='a womb' coming in with ἀδελφιδός

Which is reassuring, since it shows they thought the Hebrew word was quite flexible - like our "baby". It's not bringing in specific and complicated allusions, such that they needed more words to explain it.

If it's at all colloquial, then it's not surprising it falls away in the shift from shepherd to king. We might sense other things doing too. And being replaced with courtly, ladylike spikenards.

The shepherd and the king may or may not be the same character. If they are the same character they're different aspects or life-stages of him.

Either way, it might be too disrespectful to call a king your boiler-uncle.

Seeing "love" in the translation the OP may have assumed it's standing for a neutral word. But what has probably happened is the translators have encountered a truly peculiar idiom of Ancient Hebrew erotic poetry (which is a genre we have about one surviving example of!) and chosen the safest option.

We can tell from the context it's a term of endearment. Outside love poetry, we can tell it means uncle. So it's male gendered.

We know from our own love songs that terms of endearment - like 'Baby' 'Angel' or 'Pumpkin' - have hugely complicated registers and link listeners' minds in to different stages and footings of relationship negotiations - in different social and cultural milieux - and with this continuously shifting due to youth fashion.

For some reason, in this one poem that could date from anywhere between 300BC and 1000BC, "boiler-uncle" is the term that nails a relationship like this.

But since we aren't the teenagers of 2000 to 3000 years ago, we can't tell which historic relationship, or even which sort of relationship, this song is about - or to what extent it's also being wisdom-literature. If it's a love-song that's really about holy wisdom then any of the pet-names and images might be ironic. And when they are it would probably go right over our heads.

The LXX's translators probably had an easier time of it than we do, being culturally, linguistically, and historically closer:-


Song of Solomon 1:7 - - שֶׁ֤אָהֲבָה֙ - - ὃν ἠγάπησεν ἡ ψυχή μου

Song of Solomon 2:16 - - דּוֹדִ֥י - - ἀδελφιδός μου

Song of Solomon 6:2 - - דּוֹדִי֙ - - Ἀδελφός μου κατέβη (some MSS have Ἀδελφιδός)

Song of Solomon 6:3 - - לְדוֹדִי֙ וְדוֹדִ֣י - - τῷ ἀδελφιδῷ μου καὶ ἀδελφιδός


But their gloss word - ἀδελφιδός - has the same problem, the only example in Lidell & Scott is the LXX's translation of the Song of Songs. "ιδ" usually indicates sons, so this might be a nephew. Or it might have sounded close to the diminutive form: ἀδελφιδιόν (=little brother).

https://archive.org/details/greekenglishlex00lidduoft/page/20/mode/2up

So that doesn't tell us much more, except that the LXX's translators:-

  • didn't take "uncle" literally

  • replaced it with another derived-sense family relationship

  • replaced it with (something like) a little brother or nephew (so it's not age-specific or implying an age-gap)

  • didn't make any use of the Hebrew root word 'to boil' or worry about δελφύς='a womb' coming in with ἀδελφιδός

Which is reassuring, since it shows they thought the Hebrew word was quite flexible - like our "baby". It's not bringing in specific and complicated allusions, such that they needed more words to explain it.

If it's at all colloquial, then it's not surprising it falls away in the shift from shepherd to king. We might sense other things doing too. And being replaced with courtly, ladylike spikenards.

The shepherd and the king may or may not be the same character. If they are the same character they're different aspects or life-stages of him.

Either way, it might be too disrespectful to call a king your boiler-uncle.

Seeing "love" in the translation the OP may have assumed it's standing for a neutral word. But what has probably happened is the translators have encountered a truly peculiar idiom of Ancient Hebrew erotic poetry (which is a genre we have about one surviving example of!) and chosen the safest option.

We can tell from the context it's a term of endearment. Outside love poetry, we can tell it means uncle. So it's male gendered.

We know from our own love songs that terms of endearment - like 'Baby' 'Angel' or 'Pumpkin' - have hugely complicated registers and link listeners' minds in to different stages and footings of relationship negotiations - in different social and cultural milieux - and with this continuously shifting due to youth fashion.

For some reason, in this one poem that could date from anywhere between 300BC and 1000BC, "boiler-uncle" is the term that nails a relationship like this.

But since we aren't the teenagers of 2000 to 3000 years ago, we can't tell which historic relationship, or even which sort of relationship, this song is about - or to what extent it's also being wisdom-literature. If it's a love-song that's really about holy wisdom then any of the pet-names and images might be ironic. And when they are it would probably go right over our heads.

The LXX's translators probably had an easier time of it than we do, being culturally, linguistically, and historically closer:-


Song of Solomon 1:7 - - שֶׁ֤אָהֲבָה֙ - - ὃν ἠγάπησεν ἡ ψυχή μου [different word!]

Song of Solomon 2:16 - - דּוֹדִ֥י - - ἀδελφιδός μου

Song of Solomon 6:2 - - דּוֹדִי֙ - - Ἀδελφός μου κατέβη (some MSS have Ἀδελφιδός)

Song of Solomon 6:3 - - לְדוֹדִי֙ וְדוֹדִ֣י - - τῷ ἀδελφιδῷ μου καὶ ἀδελφιδός


But their gloss word - ἀδελφιδός - has the same problem, the only example in Lidell & Scott is the LXX's translation of the Song of Songs. "ιδ" usually indicates sons, so this might be a nephew. Or it might have sounded close to the diminutive form: ἀδελφιδιόν (=little brother).

https://archive.org/details/greekenglishlex00lidduoft/page/20/mode/2up

So that doesn't tell us much more, except that the LXX's translators:-

  • didn't take "uncle" literally

  • replaced it with another derived-sense family relationship

  • replaced it with (something like) a little brother or nephew (so it's not age-specific or implying an age-gap)

  • didn't make any use of the Hebrew root word 'to boil' or worry about δελφύς='a womb' coming in with ἀδελφιδός

Which is reassuring, since it shows they thought the Hebrew word was quite flexible - like our "baby". It's not bringing in specific and complicated allusions, such that they needed more words to explain it.

If it's at all colloquial, then it's not surprising it falls away in the shift from shepherd to king. We might sense other things doing too. And being replaced with courtly, ladylike spikenards.

added 13 characters in body
Source Link
FelixLXX
  • 1.1k
  • 3
  • 23

The shepherd and the king may or may not be the same character. If they are the same character they're different aspects or life-stages of him.

Either way, it might be too disrespectful to call a king your boiler-uncle.

Seeing "love" in the translation the OP may have assumed it's standing for a neutral word. But what has probably happened is the translators have encountered a truly peculiar idiom of Ancient Hebrew erotic poetry (which is a genre we have about one surviving example of!) and chosen the safest option.

We can tell from the context it's a term of endearment. Outside love poetry, we can tell it means uncle. So it's male gendered.

We know from our own love songs that terms of endearment - like 'Baby' 'Angel' or 'Pumpkin' - have hugely complicated registers and link listeners' minds in to different stages and footings of relationship negotiations - in different social and cultural milieux - and with this continuously shifting due to youth fashion.

For some reason, in this one poem that could date from anywhere between 300BC and 1000BC, "boiler-uncle" is the term that nails a relationship like this.

But since we aren't the teenagers of 2000 to 3000 years ago, we can't tell which historic relationship, or even which sort of relationship, this song is about - or to what extent it's also being wisdom-literature. If it's a love-song that's really about holy wisdom then any of the pet-names and images might be ironic. And when they are it would probably go right over our heads.

The LXX's translators probably had an easier time of it than we do, being culturally, linguistically, and historically closer:-


Song of Solomon 1:7 - - שֶׁ֤אָהֲבָה֙ - - ὃν ἠγάπησεν ἡ ψυχή μου

Song of Solomon 2:16 - - דּוֹדִ֥י - - ἀδελφιδός μου

Song of Solomon 6:2 - - דּוֹדִי֙ - - Ἀδελφός μου κατέβη (some MSS have Ἀδελφιδός)

Song of Solomon 6:3 - - לְדוֹדִי֙ וְדוֹדִ֣י - - τῷ ἀδελφιδῷ μου καὶ ἀδελφιδός


But their gloss word - ἀδελφιδός - has the same problem, the only example in Lidell & Scott is the LXX's translation of the Song of Songs. "ιδ" usually indicates sons, so this might be a nephew. Or it might have sounded close to the diminutive form: ἀδελφιδιόν (=little brother).

https://archive.org/details/greekenglishlex00lidduoft/page/20/mode/2up

So that doesn't tell us much more, except that the LXX's translators:-

  • didn't take "uncle" literally

  • replaced it with another derived-sense family relationship

  • replaced it with (something like) a little brother or nephew (so it's not age-specific or implying an age-gap)

  • didn't make any use of the Hebrew root word 'to boil' or worry about δελφύς='a womb' coming in with ἀδελφιδός

Which is reassuring, since it shows they thought the Hebrew word was quite flexible - like our "baby". It's not bringing in specific and complicated allusions, such that they needed more words to explain it.

If it's at all colloquial, then it's not surprising it falls away in the shift from shepherd to king. We might sense other things doing too. But from this distance we just can't tellAnd being replaced with courtly, ladylike spikenards.

The shepherd and the king may or may not be the same character. If they are the same character they're different aspects or life-stages of him.

Either way, it might be too disrespectful to call a king your boiler-uncle.

Seeing "love" in the translation the OP may have assumed it's standing for a neutral word. But what has probably happened is the translators have encountered a truly peculiar idiom of Ancient Hebrew erotic poetry (which is a genre we have about one surviving example of!) and chosen the safest option.

We can tell from the context it's a term of endearment. Outside love poetry, we can tell it means uncle. So it's male gendered.

We know from our own love songs that terms of endearment - like 'Baby' 'Angel' or 'Pumpkin' - have hugely complicated registers and link listeners' minds in to different stages and footings of relationship negotiations - in different social and cultural milieux - and with this continuously shifting due to youth fashion.

For some reason, in this one poem that could date from anywhere between 300BC and 1000BC, "boiler-uncle" is the term that nails a relationship like this.

But since we aren't the teenagers of 2000 to 3000 years ago, we can't tell which historic relationship, or even which sort of relationship, this song is about - or to what extent it's also being wisdom-literature. If it's a love-song that's really about holy wisdom then any of the pet-names and images might be ironic. And when they are it would probably go right over our heads.

The LXX's translators probably had an easier time of it than we do, being culturally, linguistically, and historically closer:-


Song of Solomon 1:7 - - שֶׁ֤אָהֲבָה֙ - - ὃν ἠγάπησεν ἡ ψυχή μου

Song of Solomon 2:16 - - דּוֹדִ֥י - - ἀδελφιδός μου

Song of Solomon 6:2 - - דּוֹדִי֙ - - Ἀδελφός μου κατέβη (some MSS have Ἀδελφιδός)

Song of Solomon 6:3 - - לְדוֹדִי֙ וְדוֹדִ֣י - - τῷ ἀδελφιδῷ μου καὶ ἀδελφιδός


But their gloss word - ἀδελφιδός - has the same problem, the only example in Lidell & Scott is the LXX's translation of the Song of Songs. "ιδ" usually indicates sons, so this might be a nephew. Or it might have sounded close to the diminutive form: ἀδελφιδιόν (=little brother).

https://archive.org/details/greekenglishlex00lidduoft/page/20/mode/2up

So that doesn't tell us much more, except that the LXX's translators:-

  • didn't take "uncle" literally

  • replaced it with another derived-sense family relationship

  • replaced it with (something like) a little brother or nephew (so it's not age-specific or implying an age-gap)

  • didn't make any use of the Hebrew root word 'to boil' or worry about δελφύς='a womb' coming in with ἀδελφιδός

Which is reassuring, since it shows they thought the Hebrew word was quite flexible - like our "baby". It's not bringing in specific and complicated allusions, such that they needed more words to explain it.

If it's at all colloquial, then it's not surprising it falls away in the shift from shepherd to king. We might sense other things doing too. But from this distance we just can't tell.

The shepherd and the king may or may not be the same character. If they are the same character they're different aspects or life-stages of him.

Either way, it might be too disrespectful to call a king your boiler-uncle.

Seeing "love" in the translation the OP may have assumed it's standing for a neutral word. But what has probably happened is the translators have encountered a truly peculiar idiom of Ancient Hebrew erotic poetry (which is a genre we have about one surviving example of!) and chosen the safest option.

We can tell from the context it's a term of endearment. Outside love poetry, we can tell it means uncle. So it's male gendered.

We know from our own love songs that terms of endearment - like 'Baby' 'Angel' or 'Pumpkin' - have hugely complicated registers and link listeners' minds in to different stages and footings of relationship negotiations - in different social and cultural milieux - and with this continuously shifting due to youth fashion.

For some reason, in this one poem that could date from anywhere between 300BC and 1000BC, "boiler-uncle" is the term that nails a relationship like this.

But since we aren't the teenagers of 2000 to 3000 years ago, we can't tell which historic relationship, or even which sort of relationship, this song is about - or to what extent it's also being wisdom-literature. If it's a love-song that's really about holy wisdom then any of the pet-names and images might be ironic. And when they are it would probably go right over our heads.

The LXX's translators probably had an easier time of it than we do, being culturally, linguistically, and historically closer:-


Song of Solomon 1:7 - - שֶׁ֤אָהֲבָה֙ - - ὃν ἠγάπησεν ἡ ψυχή μου

Song of Solomon 2:16 - - דּוֹדִ֥י - - ἀδελφιδός μου

Song of Solomon 6:2 - - דּוֹדִי֙ - - Ἀδελφός μου κατέβη (some MSS have Ἀδελφιδός)

Song of Solomon 6:3 - - לְדוֹדִי֙ וְדוֹדִ֣י - - τῷ ἀδελφιδῷ μου καὶ ἀδελφιδός


But their gloss word - ἀδελφιδός - has the same problem, the only example in Lidell & Scott is the LXX's translation of the Song of Songs. "ιδ" usually indicates sons, so this might be a nephew. Or it might have sounded close to the diminutive form: ἀδελφιδιόν (=little brother).

https://archive.org/details/greekenglishlex00lidduoft/page/20/mode/2up

So that doesn't tell us much more, except that the LXX's translators:-

  • didn't take "uncle" literally

  • replaced it with another derived-sense family relationship

  • replaced it with (something like) a little brother or nephew (so it's not age-specific or implying an age-gap)

  • didn't make any use of the Hebrew root word 'to boil' or worry about δελφύς='a womb' coming in with ἀδελφιδός

Which is reassuring, since it shows they thought the Hebrew word was quite flexible - like our "baby". It's not bringing in specific and complicated allusions, such that they needed more words to explain it.

If it's at all colloquial, then it's not surprising it falls away in the shift from shepherd to king. We might sense other things doing too. And being replaced with courtly, ladylike spikenards.

Source Link
FelixLXX
  • 1.1k
  • 3
  • 23

The shepherd and the king may or may not be the same character. If they are the same character they're different aspects or life-stages of him.

Either way, it might be too disrespectful to call a king your boiler-uncle.

Seeing "love" in the translation the OP may have assumed it's standing for a neutral word. But what has probably happened is the translators have encountered a truly peculiar idiom of Ancient Hebrew erotic poetry (which is a genre we have about one surviving example of!) and chosen the safest option.

We can tell from the context it's a term of endearment. Outside love poetry, we can tell it means uncle. So it's male gendered.

We know from our own love songs that terms of endearment - like 'Baby' 'Angel' or 'Pumpkin' - have hugely complicated registers and link listeners' minds in to different stages and footings of relationship negotiations - in different social and cultural milieux - and with this continuously shifting due to youth fashion.

For some reason, in this one poem that could date from anywhere between 300BC and 1000BC, "boiler-uncle" is the term that nails a relationship like this.

But since we aren't the teenagers of 2000 to 3000 years ago, we can't tell which historic relationship, or even which sort of relationship, this song is about - or to what extent it's also being wisdom-literature. If it's a love-song that's really about holy wisdom then any of the pet-names and images might be ironic. And when they are it would probably go right over our heads.

The LXX's translators probably had an easier time of it than we do, being culturally, linguistically, and historically closer:-


Song of Solomon 1:7 - - שֶׁ֤אָהֲבָה֙ - - ὃν ἠγάπησεν ἡ ψυχή μου

Song of Solomon 2:16 - - דּוֹדִ֥י - - ἀδελφιδός μου

Song of Solomon 6:2 - - דּוֹדִי֙ - - Ἀδελφός μου κατέβη (some MSS have Ἀδελφιδός)

Song of Solomon 6:3 - - לְדוֹדִי֙ וְדוֹדִ֣י - - τῷ ἀδελφιδῷ μου καὶ ἀδελφιδός


But their gloss word - ἀδελφιδός - has the same problem, the only example in Lidell & Scott is the LXX's translation of the Song of Songs. "ιδ" usually indicates sons, so this might be a nephew. Or it might have sounded close to the diminutive form: ἀδελφιδιόν (=little brother).

https://archive.org/details/greekenglishlex00lidduoft/page/20/mode/2up

So that doesn't tell us much more, except that the LXX's translators:-

  • didn't take "uncle" literally

  • replaced it with another derived-sense family relationship

  • replaced it with (something like) a little brother or nephew (so it's not age-specific or implying an age-gap)

  • didn't make any use of the Hebrew root word 'to boil' or worry about δελφύς='a womb' coming in with ἀδελφιδός

Which is reassuring, since it shows they thought the Hebrew word was quite flexible - like our "baby". It's not bringing in specific and complicated allusions, such that they needed more words to explain it.

If it's at all colloquial, then it's not surprising it falls away in the shift from shepherd to king. We might sense other things doing too. But from this distance we just can't tell.