Timeline for What is meant by “power” in the context of Acts 1:8?
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| Jul 9, 2022 at 23:47 | comment | added | Mike Borden | @NihilSineDeo The text at hand says they will receive power and they will be witnesses. | |
| Jul 3, 2022 at 20:31 | history | edited | Dottard | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Jul 3, 2022 at 20:03 | history | edited | Dottard | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Further explanation
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| Apr 4, 2021 at 20:09 | vote | accept | CommunityBot | ||
| Jul 6, 2022 at 14:09 | |||||
| Oct 27, 2020 at 20:17 | comment | added | Dottard | @SpiritRealmInvestigator - I fully agree that the HS power must be used in full cooperation with the person - no debate about that. | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 13:27 | comment | added | user38524 | I agree with @NihilSineDeo that there appears to be some work to be done on the believer's side in order to unleash greater measures of power from the HS. For example Jesus had to fast for 40 days, after which he came back in the HS power. The apostles and disciples had to wait for 10 days in full time prayer (and fasting? I'm not sure about that one) after which they received the HS baptism at Pentecost. And more generally, I can't imagine how a carnal lukewarm "Christian" can be endued with power for witnessing. There is a price to be paid by the believer in order to unleash that power. | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 13:04 | comment | added | Nihil Sine Deo | Ah that is my point though dear Dottard, one can have the HS and not have power (to witness). Just like one can have the HS and not prophesy. But if someone has power (to witness) or are prophesying by the Spirit they automatically have the HS. Example: John 20:22 Peter received the HS but only after he received power (to witness) from the HS did Peter stand up and witness about Jesus to the multitude in Acts 2:14+. | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 12:36 | comment | added | Dottard | @NihilSineDeo - not at all - the parable of the talents and 1 Cor 12) tells us that the Holy Spirit administers different gifts in different amounts for different purposes and on different occasions - all at the spirit's discretion. To have the Holy Spirit without the power of the HS (to do whatever work He has decided) is not to have the HS at all. | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 12:28 | comment | added | Nihil Sine Deo | Exactly. For those who have the HS; One either has power or does not. One either has the HS and received power; or has the HS and not received power. To have the HS doesn’t automatically mean having power to witness. Why do you keep laboring this point? Jesus had the Spirit without measure after the temptation in the Wilderness, all seven-fold spirits of God. That logically means not everyone has all seven but still they had the HS. David didn’t have all seven, Jeremiah didn’t have all seven. You’re conflating the Giver with His gifts. I’m now persuaded you’ve never experienced the difference | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 12:14 | comment | added | Dottard | @NihilSineDeo - You make distinction that are not present in the NT. One either has the Spirit or one does not. | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 12:10 | comment | added | Nihil Sine Deo | Until you can differentiate between receiving the HS and receiving from the HS we are not getting anywhere. Until you can differentiate between being full and being immersed, between being at the shore up-to you ankles or completely out at sea swimming we are not going to agree. Until you can differentiate between having the HS and power and having the HS and not having power we don’t see eye to eye. Jesus received the HS and was full of the Spirit but only until He was in the power of the Spirit could he boldly witness for the Father. Too many are full of the HS but have never been HSbaptized | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 5:49 | comment | added | Dottard | @NihilSineDeo - that is the whole point - a person who has the HS is empowered. Ignoring or shunning the work of the HS in one's life cuts of the supply of the Spirit's power. | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 3:45 | comment | added | Nihil Sine Deo | Seems you're missing the other side and laboring only on the HS’s actions. It’s also up to the person to want to be used. Hence receiving power (to witness) is separate to having the HS. You can have the HS and not have power. The HS doesn’t just give out power to those who don’t want it and m/or don’t ask for it. Likewise asking for the power (to witness) doesn’t automatically mean receiving it if the HS chooses to withhold it. I’m not persuaded we agree. But alas | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 2:37 | comment | added | Dottard | @NihilSineDeo - I think we actually agree, except that it is not conflation - it is up to the HS to use people as He decides. | |
| Oct 27, 2020 at 1:55 | comment | added | Nihil Sine Deo | You are conflating having the HS with receiving power from the HS. It’s as if to say, when you have the HS then anything the HS has to offer is available automatically including the power to witness. Not so, there is a two-way interaction, there is cooperation. He cannot force the power on you and you can’t demand it from Him. It needs to be asked for, desired and sought after and you need to qualify. Not every Christian filled with the HS ALSO have power to witness. Do they still have the HS yes but lack the power. It’s not automatic. 1Cor14:1 why desire prophecy if they already have the HS? | |
| Oct 26, 2020 at 23:59 | comment | added | Dottard | @NihilSineDeo - Are you making distinctions that the Bible does not make? To have the HS is to have the the power that the HS imparts otherwise having the HS makes no sense at all! The power of the HS is exercised at the HS's discretion not ours. Therefore, I struggle to see the distinction you make because it is not in Scripture. | |
| Oct 26, 2020 at 22:50 | comment | added | Nihil Sine Deo | If you can show that in Acts 1 they received the HS then I’ll join your side, if it’s just power they received then you are conflating. Jesus was full of the HS but His ministry started when he was operating in the power of the HS. There is a difference between being full and being submerged/baptized. There is a difference between having the HS and receiving power from the HS; and gifts are different still. On that note, having one gift doesn’t mean you have all the gifts. They are all available but doesn’t mean one has them all. Same with the power, it’s available but not a package deal. | |
| Oct 26, 2020 at 21:50 | comment | added | Dottard | @NihilSineDeo - on that subtle point we clearly differ - I believe that the conversion of the person is as much a miracle as signs and wonders. So is the spiritual enlightenment with spiritual gifts of discernment, government, prophecy, helpfulness, etc. That is, the gift of the Spirit, if not at least for power to live the Christian life is meaningless and useless. | |
| Oct 26, 2020 at 21:44 | comment | added | Nihil Sine Deo | The point being, though one who is born again has the HS (which was already imparted on the disciples J20:22) that person does NOT also have power (to witness). Power was received as a separate event. Acts 4:31 speaks of those who ALREADY received power and were baptized with the HS, and yet they AGAIN were filled and given boldness to witness. Witnessing is the sign of the power and it’s accompanied by signs and miracles. Paul also makes the point that his preaching of the gospel is accompanied by signs, proof of the power. One cannot conflate having the HS with also having received power.❌ | |
| Oct 26, 2020 at 21:25 | comment | added | Dottard | @NihilSineDeo - astute observation. The Holy Spirit gives the power and He exercises that power at His discretion. Jesus was "full of the Holy Spirit" but did no miracles (in some places) because the people we unprepared - but it was the decision of the Holy Sprint to not perform any signs and wonders. In any case, as pointed out above, the power of the HS is not confined to miracles, it primarily includes spiritual enlightenment of the Christian to know and imitate Christ and produce the fruit of the Spirit, convict of sin, etc, etc. | |
| Oct 26, 2020 at 21:20 | comment | added | Nihil Sine Deo | One cannot equate the power of the Holy Spirit with having the Holy Spirit. Two different things. “And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness” Luke 4:1 Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit yet He performed no miracles or signs. “And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and a report about him went out through all the surrounding country.” Luke 4:14 it was only from this point onwards that Jesus’ public ministry accompanied with signs, wonders and miracles began. Are you conflating power with HS? | |
| Oct 26, 2020 at 21:02 | history | answered | Dottard | CC BY-SA 4.0 |