Timeline for The lexicology of Pharaoh's heart
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
19 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Mar 22, 2016 at 13:33 | history | bounty ended | C. Kelly | ||
| Mar 20, 2016 at 4:25 | comment | added | ScottS | @C.Kelly I think it shows intentional usage patterns, so I'm glad at least one other person agrees with me. I think more study could be done on this, but that will be for some other time. I've invested too much in this already (but the question interested me when it was first posted, and your bounty brought it back to my attention, and I had some time to work on looking at the verses). | |
| Mar 19, 2016 at 21:37 | comment | added | C. Kelly | Thanks, @ScottS, for this exhaustive answer, with a suggested interpretation (as I'd hoped) drawn from the study. The "bookends" idea and the observation that kbd ends as Pharaoh starts to weaken shows intention on the part of the author in choosing different words, and suggests a pattern. This makes quite a good counter to the documentary hypothesis, IMO. | |
| Mar 18, 2016 at 21:42 | history | edited | ScottS | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Added chart to show overall relation
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| Mar 18, 2016 at 17:56 | history | edited | ScottS | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Clarified qšh position info
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| Mar 18, 2016 at 17:04 | history | edited | ScottS | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Removed unnecessary link info as links no longer existed but paths remained below.
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| Mar 18, 2016 at 16:27 | history | edited | ScottS | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Added bolding missing
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| Mar 18, 2016 at 15:38 | history | edited | ScottS | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
added 10 characters in body
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| Mar 18, 2016 at 15:37 | comment | added | ScottS | @Schuh All translations have bias :-). I believe 13:15 should be included (as I note). There are multiple levels of context to look at, and I have completed a major revision of my answer to help show the contextual points I believe are relevant to determining the distinctions. (At one point I was over 42000 characters and the limit for an answer is 30000, so this is quite paired down!) You likely will still disagree with me, but at least I think I've clarified my thoughts; I know I tweaked some of my understanding as I noticed two significant points with qšh and kbd I missed before. | |
| Mar 18, 2016 at 15:30 | history | edited | ScottS | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Massive revision to better show context points and tweak and refine argument
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| Mar 17, 2016 at 5:39 | comment | added | Schuh | We should have done this earlier, but I’ve now appended a list of the verses grouped by verb stem to the question (in NASB, thus avoiding bias). Do your summary/conclusion statements accurately describe each group and only that group? For example, compare 7:13 with 7:14 (same context, different verbs), 9:7b and 9:35a (nearly identical phrases, different verbs), and 7:3, 10:1 and 11:10 (same actor, same context, different verbs). You say the verbs are distinguished by their contexts, but your summaries don't fit the verses, IMO. [Peace to you.] | |
| Mar 17, 2016 at 3:04 | comment | added | ScottS | Also, 13:15 Pharaoh is subject, not YHWH, so 9:35 is not the final point for all the verbs. But again, subjects do not really matter here in finding a pattern. The surrounding context of its usage matters. What occurs before/after the statement matters. I feel I have demonstrated that, but you are free to disagree about my level of success or not. | |
| Mar 17, 2016 at 3:04 | comment | added | ScottS | @Schuh The lexicons show they differ in typical meanings ("be strong," "be heavy," and "be hard/stubborn"). No other evidence than that is needed to indicate they do differ in many cases. Only qšh has close to a more base definition of "be hard" (i.e. difficult/severe). So the burden is on proving they should be equated. Verb/subject analysis tells little about a meaning of a verb when by nature actions can be done by multiple subjects. Context is what will answer if there is distinction, and I believe and have tried to show context does answer that. I'm fine with you disagreeing. cont. | |
| Mar 16, 2016 at 23:19 | comment | added | Schuh | Yes, I like English translations to indicate where the Hebrew vocabulary varies, but how do these three Hebrew verbs differ, if at all? Verb/subject analysis shows no meaningful distinction: YHWH and Pharaoh (or his heart) are the subject of all three verbs. After 9:35 YHWH is the only subject of any ‘harden’ verb (including kbd). But neither this nor any other usage is obviously tied to a plot point (as you've claimed but not shown). You state your belief that the Hebrew verbs ought to differ in meaning, but you haven't demonstrated -- from the text -- that they actually do. | |
| Mar 16, 2016 at 21:24 | history | edited | ScottS | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Clarified conclusion and added contrast to the strength with which Pharaoh let Israel go.
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| Mar 16, 2016 at 20:50 | comment | added | ScottS | @Schuh: How can you say rendering three different English words for the three different Hebrew words does not reflect "the actual texts"? It reflects them more. Also, theological concerns are part of interpretation (at least in some hermeneutics), as theology builds upon itself from the text. I do need to clarify my conclusion on hzq, as it is a broad effect occurring at throughout, unlike kbd that ends as Pharaoh softens. That YHWH is the subject of all 3 verbs is addressed. The pattern is not in who the actor is, it is in the meanings of the words and what they intend to convey. | |
| Mar 16, 2016 at 20:21 | comment | added | Schuh | The grammatical analysis of each verse is helpful -- thanks for that -- but the conclusions don't follow. As you show and then ignore, YHWH is subject of all 3 ‘harden’ verbs, and as often as not the heart is ‘hardened’ (hzq or kbd) without an actor. HZQ verses do not all relate to release under threat, nor do KBD verses all relate to repentance under grace (???). Rendering the verbs as ‘strengthen’ when applied to YHWH (reinforced in your edit) but ‘heavy’ or ‘stubborn’ otherwise reflects a theological concern, not the actual texts. IMO the suggested 'pattern' is forced. | |
| Mar 16, 2016 at 16:56 | history | edited | ScottS | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
Refined details and added note on causality
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| Mar 15, 2016 at 23:40 | history | answered | ScottS | CC BY-SA 3.0 |