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Jan
13
comment Are the unlearned and unstable in 2 Pet 3:16 regenerated Christians?
Very interesting input! Thank you.
Jan
12
comment Are the unlearned and unstable in 2 Pet 3:16 regenerated Christians?
I understand that, but still... is it possible to stay only within the context of 2nd Peter and - regardless of any tradition - try to infer from the text whether or not the author includes the unlearned and unstable ones in 2 Pet 3:16 in the number of those he had mentioned earlier in 1:4? Or is it an impossible task?
Jan
11
comment Are the unlearned and unstable in 2 Pet 3:16 regenerated Christians?
"The issue of "regeneration" παλινγενεσίας (palingenesias), is not the issue in this passage" - What if we looked at this issue in the way of "being regenerated = being the one who has partaken of God's divine nature at least once in his lifetime" (see my replies to Dan's comment right below my question for detailes). So, could these unlearned and unstable ones in 2 Pet 3:16 be from among those who have at least once partaken of the divine nature of God mentioned in 2 Pet. 1:4?
Jan
5
comment Are the unlearned and unstable in 2 Pet 3:16 regenerated Christians?
@Dan - (2) Along these lines, I am also quite curious if the people that Peter is talking about in 2 Pet. 2:20 are also the ones that have partaken at least once in the past, that is, are the partakers: "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome..."
Jan
5
comment Are the unlearned and unstable in 2 Pet 3:16 regenerated Christians?
@Dan - (1) "this is not a one-time event, as I'm sure you recognize" - The process of partaking is, of course, not a one-time event, but the very act of becoming a partaker, for sure, is. Simply put, the one who has become a partaker is the one who has started the process of partaking in his life, that is, has performed an act of partaking at least once in his life.
Jan
4
comment Are the unlearned and unstable in 2 Pet 3:16 regenerated Christians?
@Dan - "It would also be helpful to examine what you mean by 'regenerated' in the context of 2 Peter (which probably wasn't written by Peter)" - By having been regenerated I mean having become the partaker of the divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4)
Jan
4
comment Are the unlearned and unstable in 2 Pet 3:16 regenerated Christians?
Ah, I see. Thank you.
Jan
4
comment Are the unlearned and unstable in 2 Pet 3:16 regenerated Christians?
I don't know, maybe it's clearer in Greek, but where does the author assets that he knows all Paul's epistles?! At least, the KJV rendering of that verse (quoted in my question) doesn't assert that at all!
Jan
4
comment Are the unlearned and unstable in 2 Pet 3:16 regenerated Christians?
Thank you for your answer. "...which confirms for New Testament scholars that this epistle was actually written long after Paul's death" - How does it confirm that the epistle was written long after Paul's death?! Why Paul could not have still been alive while Peter was writing this epistle?
Dec
18
comment Does the woman in Revelation 12 go down to the earth from the heaven?
"Just as Israel and Judah (two tribes) went astray..." - I can get that Judah is one tribe, but how is Israel another one tribe?!
May
22
comment The grammatical tense of the verb “judged” in 1Peter 4:6
9) If you look, by the way, at what kind of things Peter was preaching to them, you will notice the content of that preaching that was accessible to the audience: Jesus’ acts of “doing good”, His miracles of healing, His death and resurrection, His judgment, and the forgiveness of sins to those who believe in Him – nothing about being born of God or being born of the Spirit, and nothing about being spiritually dead or alive.
May
22
comment The grammatical tense of the verb “judged” in 1Peter 4:6
8) And for sure such a phrase like “both the living and the dead” would be firstly understood by him only in the physical sense as such concepts like “physically living, but spiritually dead” or “physically dead, but spiritually alive” were simply not yet familiar to him – just like they were first not familiar to Nicodemus. Peter, of course, realized that; therefore, I make a conclusion that when Peter was using the phrase “both the living and the dead” in his first preaching to Nicodemus and his kinsmen and friends he was using it in the physical sense. ↙
May
22
comment The grammatical tense of the verb “judged” in 1Peter 4:6
7) So, if the Pharisee Nicodemus, a ruler of Jews and a master of Israel, was so puzzled by these spiritual things when they were first mentioned to him, then we won’t commit an error by suggesting that these things would be equally, if not all the more so, puzzling to the centurion Cornelius who was not a Jew, but rather “one of another nation”, keeping a company with whom was “unlawful for a Jew” (Acts 10:28) – even despite the fact that he was a God-fearing gentile and of good report among Jews (Acts 10:22). ↙
May
22
comment The grammatical tense of the verb “judged” in 1Peter 4:6
6) However, the matter of baptism and all the imagery related to it is quite off-topic here. For the present thread it will suffice to establish that Nicodemus was quite puzzled when the Lord started talking to him about life and death in spiritual terms. The matter of spiritual birth – that is, the matter of passing from spiritual death into life – was completely out of his frame of reference. ↙
May
22
comment The grammatical tense of the verb “judged” in 1Peter 4:6
5) – Judah, as we know, was not there, and Thomas must’ve been regenerated one week later when he met Jesus again and believed into Him), which somehow corresponds to Peter’s words in 1st Pet. 1:3: “God … has begotten us … by the resurrection of Jesus Christ”. Incidentally, the Scripture doesn’t tell us that the twelve disciples chosen by Him at the beginning of His ministry were ever baptized in the water, though we know that they themselves were baptizing others. ↙
May
22
comment The grammatical tense of the verb “judged” in 1Peter 4:6
4) This also means that that person joins the Lord in the spirit and becomes one with Him in his spirit (1 Cor. 6:17). This may take place before baptism, during the baptism or even after (in which case the baptism was probably not valid as it was not done out of faith). I believe that in case with ten disciples of the Lord this regeneration happened not on the day of Pentecost, but on the day of Jesus’ resurrection (at the moment when He breathed into them and said: “Receive the Holy Spirit” – John 20:22 ↙
May
22
comment The grammatical tense of the verb “judged” in 1Peter 4:6
3) Besides, I don’t think that the moment of regeneration, that is, the point, at which a person becomes a God-born child, necessarily takes place at the time when that person is being baptized in the water. However, I do believe that regeneration happens at the moment when a person believes, opens his heart to Jesus (prayer), and the Spirit of God (Rom. 8:9) – which is also the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8:9), and is also called Spirit of adoption or sonship (Rom. 8:15) – enters into him and starts living in him. ↙
May
22
comment The grammatical tense of the verb “judged” in 1Peter 4:6
2) there will be no more sea). The water of baptism is associated with the death and termination of our old natural man (like in Rom. 6:3-4), while the living water is associated with life and the birth of our new man. The former one deals with something negative, while the latter one does something positive. The former one is for “external use” – a person is either immersed into it, washed by it or sprinkled by it, while the latter one is exclusively for “internal use” – one has to drink of it in order to profit from it.↙
May
22
comment The grammatical tense of the verb “judged” in 1Peter 4:6
1) @Joseph: "thus the imagery of baptism. The physical illustration is water, but the spiritual is "living water" – Well, I would take issue here with your view on regeneration, baptism and baptism imagery. You seem to draw no distinction between the baptismal water and the living water, while to me they are quite different. The former one is hardly ever spoken of as flowing, while the latter one is almost always spoken of as flowing – like in John 4:14, 7:39, Rev. 22:1 (we know that in eternity future there will be the river of water of life flowing from the throne of God, but ↙
May
21
comment The grammatical tense of the verb “judged” in 1Peter 4:6
2) This phrase, in fact, was very common among Jews, and the physical sense in this phrase looks to me more plausible than spiritual - it is rather unlikely that Jews would imply spiritual sense in it as such concepts like "regenerated by the spirit", "born of the Spirit" or "dead in the spirit" were quite unclear and unfamiliar to them as we can tell from Nicodemus' talk to Jesus (John 3:6-10)